Large Scale Central

Old School Ballast Car

Prototypes
#1

OK so in the MOW thread I got to thinking about various cars. John B shows a rail and tie car. There is a crane or two. It got me thinking about how ballast would have been carried, dumped and spread in the good old days. Online I find various forms of cars from good old fashion gons where some poor SOB would have to do a lot of shoveling. To modern little hoppers that dump low and to the sides. But I did see where at least modelers and even a few prototype pics appear to use small center dumping hoppers. If a center dumping hopper were to be used how would you not derail your car running over the ballast. Or is that poor SOB shoveling it off the rails as it moves along?

What is the purpose of a flanger. I know they use them for snow removal but were they used for spreading ballast?

#2

When a center dump ballast car is in use, you usually see a tie laying across the rails, between the truck and the hopper chute. Quite often the tie is chained to the car, or cabled to the car, so as the car moved forward, it drags the tie, and the tie sweeps the ballast off the rail-head.

As for flangers, I only know that they are used to clear the flange-ways beside the rails of snow. I do not know if they are durable enough to clear ballast, mud of other stuff from the flange-way.

#3

Here’s my comments after working on a MOW work train dumping ballast for 3 weeks straight…

A typical ballast car can dump both inside and outside of the rails. The older style cars are manually operated and controlled. Typical dumping speed for these is 1-2 mph. The MOW crew has a long breaker bar type device that opens the doors and controls the amount of flow. And yes if the hoghead or a the MOW crew screws up you can end up dumping too much ballast in one spot. The keep to dumping ballast is too keep a steady speed. Easier said than done.

Now modern unit ballast trains are dumped at 4-5 mph, and are GPS and remotely controlled. When I was working the work train (ca 2005-2008?), one day we dumped a whole unit train (35-40 cars) of ballast from Bellingham, WA to the outskirts of Vancouver, BC at 5 mph. We never stopped moving once we got started. My brakeman and conductor (along with the MOW crew) started on the headend, and when we pulled into the siding to tie up for the day (after 12 hours of dumping ballast), everyone was on the rear end. Per the rules, no one was ‘supposed’ to get on/off moving equipment, but no one on my crew ever walked too much that day and I never stopped. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)So dumping ballast with GPS is a little faster, and more precise as each car has individual controls that are run by the computer.

Now, in the recent years (ca 2016) I’ve seen and heard of ballast trains dumping at 20-30 mph with no human interaction expect the regular train crew.

Now if you use a regular hopper car, I’ve see shortlines place a tie in front of the trailing truck on each car that is dumping to spread the ballast out. Can a flanger be used? I’m sure it could be, but I’ve never seen one in action with a ballast train. I’ve seen spreaders reworking the side profile of the ROW with fresh ballast, but never inside the gauge line.

#4

David Maynard said:

When a center dump ballast car is in use, you usually see a tie laying across the rails, between the truck and the hopper chute. Quite often the tie is chained to the car, or cabled to the car, so as the car moved forward, it drags the tie, and the tie sweeps the ballast off the rail-head.

Now that would make sense. I figured something would need to do it but never thought it would be that simple but why not.

#5

I like simple solutions. But then I am a tech, and all day I deal with overly complicated, convoluted designs that…but that was with Xerox.

#6

Thanks Craig, it’s amazing to hear a real first-person hands-on account.

#7

Here are two pics of East Broad Top 802. Just how old it is, I don’t know, but this should give some idea of how of was done back in the day. Which day, I dunno.

Photo by Darryl Rule

Photo by Bob Vogel

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=166329

#8

Here’s one from Narrow Minded D&RGW, ca 1904,

http://blackstonemodels.com/new/800gondola/dbgonhistory.php

#9

Here is a more clear image of a model by P-B-L.

http://www.p-b-l.com/Rolling-Stock/R-14/DB-Gon-2.html

#10

The D&RGW one is pretty cool, Id like to see that up close.

#11

We (DRHS) made one. We didn’t start out to, but by the time we finished, it had 100% new wood, and the drop mech. actually works.

Heres a link.

http://www.drhs315.org/blog/drhs-railcars/drop-bottom-gondola/restore-db-gon/

Dave

#12

Steve Featherkile said:

Here are two pics of East Broad Top 802. Just how old it is, I don’t know, but this should give some idea of how of was done back in the day. Which day, I dunno.

Photo by Darryl Rule

Photo by Bob Vogel

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=166329

The EBT dumped a lot of slag from the coal cleaning plant in Mt. Union. They also filled in a lot of trestles with slag, creating berms that stand to this day. So I guess these ballast cars did a lot of abnormal ballast dumping. All ballast on the EBT was slag or boney. The EBT is always interesting.

#13

Ahhh yes Mt Union … Still need to show Hollywood some territory up that way.

#14

Dave thanks for that link. I was wondering just how it worked. That would be a fun car to copy.

#15

Devon, the article is almost a step by step how to. So, off on your next Devoning there, Devon. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#16

David Maynard said:

Devon, the article is almost a step by step how to. So, off on your next Devoning there, Devon. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

Well, yes it is isn’t it. And it is appropriately bookmarked. I will resist the temptation for now, but I admit I am tempted. I have a Bachmann gon that would work nicely. It would make as nice an unfinished project as any other.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#17

Ric Golding said:

Steve Featherkile said:

Here are two pics of East Broad Top 802. Just how old it is, I don’t know, but this should give some idea of how of was done back in the day. Which day, I dunno.

Photo by Darryl Rule

Photo by Bob Vogel

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=166329

The EBT dumped a lot of slag from the coal cleaning plant in Mt. Union. They also filled in a lot of trestles with slag, creating berms that stand to this day. So I guess these ballast cars did a lot of abnormal ballast dumping. All ballast on the EBT was slag or boney. The EBT is always interesting.

#802 Started life as a center dump car purchased from Pressed Steel Car Company in 1913. This was a group of 10 bought as the railroads first steel hoppers. After these 10, the railroad built hundreds of their own in the shops at Rockhill. See the PSCC photo below courtesy of Pete Thorton. It started out on archbar trucks as well. A number of the 2 bays were converted to side dump but I’m not sure quite when.

Before 1913 the job would have been done the the wooden equivalents. These were center dump as well so I’m assuming they’d have been dragging the old tie along before the first truck too. Here is another photo from Pete’s online collection I found. Thanks Pete!(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

" Rooster " said:

Ahhh yes Mt Union … Still need to show Hollywood some territory up that way.

Let me know when you do!

#18

Dave Taylor said:

We (DRHS) made one. We didn’t start out to, but by the time we finished, it had 100% new wood, and the drop mech. actually works.

Heres a link.

http://www.drhs315.org/blog/drhs-railcars/drop-bottom-gondola/restore-db-gon/

Dave

There is a derelict drop-bottom gon at the Orange Empire Museum near LA (well, there was when I visited in 2012 - pic attached.)

Don Winter made a kit with Phil Dippel with all the fancy door hardware. Phil updated it and sold some until he retired.

#19

Re: EBT #802 side dump.

I believe it was converted fairly recently - after the RR closed down. So probably not a good example of an old ballast car!

#20

Dave/Pete/anyone else,

It would appear that on the D&RGW drop bottom that there are 6 doors to a side. If I am looking at it right there is a ratchet handle on each side at each end. Each of those four ratchet handles are tied to a rod that spans half the distance of the side. If I am seeing this right then there are two chains per door attached to that rod. If I am right then three doors are operated at one time by each handle. That mean the amount of ballast dropped is regulated by three doors at a time and those three doors are opened in ratchet increments. Do I see this correctly.

If so this would be a very fun MOW car to model and could be made in all sorts of sizes and door configurations. Add this to the bucket for sure.