Large Scale Central

Off the grid

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

So part of my track planning includes the train shed. Ideally I want to have a rack for each locomotive that will act as a permanent charging station. I am rapidly becoming a fan and enthusiast of alternative energy. Not only is it green but its also free (well after the cost of equipment). My railroad will be battery. I am hoping to run solar and batteries and maybe even a small windmill for power to run led area lighting, a very small water feature pump, and am hoping to use it to charge the locomotives. My question is what voltage will be needed to charge the locomotives? Since they will be all under 24v I was hoping that I could make the entire power plant a 24v system. I can get water pumps that are 12 or 24 volt and haven’t checked but I am sure 12 or 24v lighting is easy. Even and Idea I am floating for drip irrigation only reqires 24v to operate the solenoid valves of regular irrigation system.

So how easy would it be to rig up charging systems that run of 24v as opposed to 110v. I think this would be a very good project to show case alternative energy. I want to make G scale a green hobby :).

#2

You should be able to find battery chargers for most chemistries that run off of 12 volts. Cordless Renovations has (had?) a solar-powered battery charger.

Later,

K

#3

Kevin Strong said:

You should be able to find battery chargers for most chemistries that run off of 12 volts. Cordless Renovations has (had?) a solar-powered battery charger.

Later,

K

Well that would be the best. After doing a little research a 12v system will be much better than 24v. There is way more stuff affordable in 12v. So if I can get 12v chargers that would be peachy

#4

The first smart charger I bought was a 12v model that was designed for r/c cars and planes. The 120v power supply was sold separately. It was a Tenergy model that ran off car battery.

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#5

A 12V system would be cool. Very popular in the RV world for off-grid living is a bank of Golf Cart Batteries (6V wired in series/parallel for high-current 12V) being charged off a roof-top array. The batteries smooth out the power from the array and supply the power when cloudy or dark. You could use regular 12V deep cycle batteries, but the 6V Golf Cart batteries are superior.

#6

Devon Sinsley said:

Kevin Strong said:

You should be able to find battery chargers for most chemistries that run off of 12 volts. Cordless Renovations has (had?) a solar-powered battery charger.

Later,

K

Well that would be the best. After doing a little research a 12v system will be much better than 24v. There is way more stuff affordable in 12v. So if I can get 12v chargers that would be peachy

Devon, get thee to thy local West Marine, where you will find a plethora of 12V solar panels designed to charge 12V boat batteries.

My boat in Fl is currently sitting with 2 of these panels (1 per battery) keeping them topped up while I am playing trains in MD. ($30)

http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/images/catalog/full/14996284.jpg

This one supplies 3W as long as there is sunslight or cloudy skies. [Note - this one is cheap. Make sure the blue LED is lit under shop lights. Some are DOA.]

Boats have batteries for all kinds of applications, from 12V starter batteries like my FL boat, to banks of 12V deep-cycle batteries for keeping the 12V refrig running over night when anchored. Many sailboats have a couple of big rigid panels (this one is 12V 85W)

http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/images/catalog/full/14996342_FUL.jpg

#7

My other comment would be that many of my locos have different batteries, as they were built in different years. I just converted my big Mikado to L-ion so it won’t charge from the same controller as an NiMH.

While I agree with Kevin’s comment that solar chargers should be available for most chemistries, I’d suggest a bit more research. Most solar panels have a “controller” which manages the power going to the batteries. I have not seen one that handles Lithium batteries yet, or NiMH for that matter. The commercial ones for boats are all lead-acid types. But I’m sure it is coming, as the advantages of Li batteries on boats are impossible to ignore!!

#8

Pete and Devon - If you use the solar to charge a 12V battery (or battery bank), then you can use the 12V batteries to run the proper charger for any chemistry. My Tenergy multi-chemestry smart charger runs from 12V power pack.

#9

Devon,

Solar power can be used to charge and maintain a deep cycle battery or two which in turn would be used to power 12VDC input smart battery charger. Link below is to Hitec chargers, I have a couple of the X4 chargers. Each charger will charge FOUR individual batteries up to 6S/25.4V at up to 6 Amps of pretty much any chemistry simultaneously with a 12VDC power supply @ 30 Amps…

Hitec battery chargers

Obviously you’ll have to size your solar power system and batteries to provide the current required to run as many chargers as you see fit.

Michael

#10

Rather than trying to do all the hoopla to try to match solar cells to specific batteries/chargers, I would connect a larger array of 12V solar panels to an array of deep cell batteries (battery voltage of choice, output of 12V) and use an AC inverter back to 120. These provide clean power and then you can go to any charger you wish, same as in the house. Therefore no duplication of equipment, and the equipment you already own will still work fine. Yes there will be some loss, but for my sheckles, the interchangability is worth the small price in loss.

#11

It would be an excellent opportunity to check the efficiency of the chargers (110v to charging output).

Chargers that use a DC to DC inverter inside will fare well (like your 12v to 110v inverter)

Chargers that use a linear regulator inside will be lossy.

Greg

#12

OK some clarification. I am looking to run the whole area on a solar/battery system. This will run some 15W-30W LED outdoor area lighting, LED indoor lighting, it will run a very small water pump, some 12v irrigation solenoids, and the chargers.

So the plan all along is to run solar panels to a battery bank via a controller from which then everything will be powered. I will likely be looking at 100W panel and a 140 Ah 12v gel cell battery.

My question really was, and was answered, is there battery chargers for our applications that will charge say a 14.4v loco battery with only 12v supply.I assumed there would be 12v chargers with inverter to get the 14.4v.

Pete,

they beauty of my loco requirements is that i don’t have any yet. I am just finishing up my first one and haven’t bought the battery yet. I am purchasing a second one that has not been converted to battery yet so It will match the other loco. Snce I am really starting from scratch all my batteries can be the same.

#13

Now Bob and Greg bring up a point. Would there be any reason to invert a 12v system to 110v just to run chargers that are charging 14.4v (I say this as this is the voltage I am leaning for to run my smallish locos). From what I understand when you invert you loose. So why take it up just to take it down again. Now keep in mind there is no existing equipment. I am a clean slate. If there are reliable 12v supply charger with built in inverters to 14.4 or ??? then this would make sense to me. I could always purchase a 110v to 12v converter if I need to take a charger on the road.

With the plethora of 12v RV and Marine systems seems to me a 12v solar system with either 6v or 12v batteries is ideal. Plenty of lighting options and other small things that will be needed. At 140 Amp hours Iw ould be able to run the things I have planned for two days to a 50% draw down. Thats running things light the 30W floods for 3 hours and a small water pump for 5. I can’t imagine needing to run more than that for longer before the solar panels will need time to recharge. I figure that gives me a good weekend of running even on evenings and then the system can recharge over the week. In the summer which is when it wil get run the most I cant imagine running for three hours after dark.

Am I missing something.

#14

Michael Glavin said:

Devon,

Solar power can be used to charge and maintain a deep cycle battery or two which in turn would be used to power 12VDC input smart battery charger. Link below is to Hitec chargers, I have a couple of the X4 chargers. Each charger will charge FOUR individual batteries up to 6S/25.4V at up to 6 Amps of pretty much any chemistry simultaneously with a 12VDC power supply @ 30 Amps…

Hitec battery chargers

Obviously you’ll have to size your solar power system and batteries to provide the current required to run as many chargers as you see fit.

Michael

Michael,

Those chargers look like they would be excellent for this application. The DC/DC charger is perfect. 12v input is right in its wheel house and will run four output chargers which at this point I would think would be great. The 30 Amp draw is a bit steeper than hoped for when I was planning the size of the system but given that they can charge over a long period where they will be no other draw on the batteries it is very doable. With four charged locos I would have plenty of run time where the charger could be switched off. after a play session and everything else is turned off the charger could be switched on.

It might take some power management discipline but I think it is very doable. While some may not see this project as practical, lets face it running a 110v wire out there would be way easier, but this is as much about playing with alternative power as it is about saving money. Combining two hobbies into one.

#15

The fun will be to see if I can design a windmill that lloks like an 1800’s wooden water pump windmill that can run a 100W generator (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#16

Devon Sinsley said:

The fun will be to see if I can design a windmill that lloks like an 1800’s wooden water pump windmill that can run a 100W generator (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

Again, go to West Marine. Wind power generators are old hat for sailboats. A small one, on a tall metal frame (sorry, wooden frame) will give you the power to charge 12V batteries.

I hadn’t seen the DC/DC chargers - sounds like a good scheme, and you can use an inverter if necessary. [West marine has them too!]

Re: Batteries and 14.4V. I don’t use 14.4V batteries. All my locos have a pair of batteries: 7.2V for Bachmann types and 11.1V Li-ion for the bogger 24V loco. You get more flexibility in where to put them, and an easier time charging them.

#17

Like Pete suggested, windmill power is old school, so should be no problem modeling a mid to late 1800’s wind powered water pump with a generator in lieu of a right angle beveled gear drive.

eBay has plethora of offerings for wind powered generators, parts and assemblies.

eBay link; wind generators

Michael

#18

I would think it would be easy. I mean I could take the modern generator and associated wiring and make a wooden blade and wooden tower. But that’s for another day.

#19

Here’s the link to my solar “project” car: https://www.cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=2756

It works quit well operating any train in the 14.4V - 16.8V range. You can add additional trailing solar-cars wired in parallel to give the battery a faster charging cycle. Right know the solar cell charges at 300mah per hour.

This car has two 14.4V A2700mah Nimh Battery-Packs under the solar panel, along with a LED digital display to read the coming charge voltage. The thought here is to fully charge booth battery-packs overnight from the onboard MC1A Smart Charger. Then when the first battery-pack is dead you can switch over to the second pack, while the solar cell is charging the first and so on and so forth. Eventually, booth packs will be dead but could give you around 6 - 7 hours of runtime?

#20

Rick Isard said:

Here’s the link to my solar “project” car: https://www.cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=2756

It works quit well operating any train in the 14.4V - 16.8V range. You can add additional trailing solar-cars wired in parallel to give the battery a faster charging cycle. Right know the solar cell charges at 300mah per hour.

This car has two 14.4V A2700mah Nimh Battery-Packs under the solar panel, along with a LED digital display to read the coming charge voltage. The thought here is to fully charge booth battery-packs overnight from the onboard MC1A Smart Charger. Then when the first battery-pack is dead you can switch over to the second pack, while the solar cell is charging the first and so on and so forth. Eventually, booth packs will be dead but could give you around 6 - 7 hours of runtime?

That’s a nifty idea.