Large Scale Central

NS4271 & NKP765

Prototypes
#21

J.D. Gallaway said:

And add in one more for good measure:

(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/8/0/8580.1368930423.jpg)

After acting as helper to lift the Employee Appreciation Steam Special up the mountain to Gallitzin, NS PRR Heritage unit No. 8102 provides dynamic braking to safely drop the train back into the Altoona Station. While the train could have turned on the “Loop” track between CP UN and CP AR, there were no turning facilities in Altoona to get the engine headed west for the next run. As a result, they chose to run push/pull. Next week’s public excursions are expected to use the loop since they can turn the train on Rockville Bridge after it returns to Enola between trips. In the distance you can just make out the 400-ton Nickel Plate “caboose” bringing up the rear of the special.

REJECTED: - Poor Lighting (Dark): The image is too dark.
- Size (Dimensions): The photo is either too narrow vertically or horizontally. For normal landscape images, our recommended height for a 1024 pixel wide image is 680 to 768 pixels. Ya, I keep hoping one day to join the elite at RP.net I think I’m sick of that.

JD, what did you learn from this experience?

Rejection is always hard to take, but if you can learn something from the experience, it might not be so bad.

Frankly, they are right, it is too dark. No, you cannot control outdoor lighting, but that is what shutter speed and f-stops are for, to control the amount of light that exposes your “film.” This is why the “pros” always bracket their shots, exposing one f stop higher and one f stop lower than the light meter suggests. That way, you can be assured of getting the necessary information. Ansel Adams always exposed for the shadows and developed for the highlights. What he meant was that he allowed enough light to reach his film to fully expose the shadows, and then, in the dark room, took care of the overexposure of the highlights by withholding some light from those highlights during development. I realize that you are doing digital photography in the computer, but the principals remain the same.

Now, as to the size, meet their recommendations. That is a minor point, though. In the photo quoted above, the train is not doing anything. A 3/4 view makes a lousy roster shot, and RP is not interested in roster shots, anyway. The train should be coming into the frame, to suggest that it is going somewhere. You may have to leave off some of the cars, but that is ok, this is not a roster shot. In the photo that you submitted, the locomotive has almost left the scene, there is no “dynamic tension.” Making diseasals look like they are doing anything is hard work. Steamers are a lot easier, because all of their moving parts are on the outside and visible.

Take a look at Introduction to Model Railroad Photography by Bob Boudreau for the basics of rail photography. Yes, it is slanted towards models, but the basics are there. Study the work of artists like O. Winston Link and Richard Steinheimer.

A photographic artist “makes a photograph, he doesn’t just take a picture.” A good photo of any sort tells a story. Figure out what your story is before you trip the shutter. Take a look, here. Check out the archives for additional stories.

Keep making photographs. Film is cheap. With digital, it is even cheaper.

Good luck.

#22

J.D. Gallaway said:

Just to show I’m not bitter, let me show you what I’m up against:

Casey Thompson, the NS Corporate Photographer, got to pics in in the last couple days, both DEFINITELY worthy of admittance:

[url=http://www.railpictures.net/photo/435711/]

(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/6/2/3762.1368361802.jpg)

Norfolk Southern’s “Honoring Our Veterans” unit, SD60E #6920, leads train Z85411 (P54) away from Washington DC after being on display for National Train Day on May 11, 2013. The Nation’s Capital can be seen in the distance as the train rounds the curve at L’Enfant Plaza. Photo by Casey Thomason. For more information, visit www.nscorp.com

[/url]

By the way, make sure you click on them. They expand into super versions at RP.net.

[url=http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=436429]

(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/1/7/9817.1368896205.jpg)

Nickel Plate Road Berkshire #765 lugs the 10:30am Employee Appreciation Special uphill and around Horseshoe Curve, on its run from Altoona to Gallitzen. Photo by Casey Thomason. For more information, visit www.nscorp.com

[/url]

If I may, let me comment on these tow. Mr Thomason is definitely a pro.

In the first photo, there is a horizon. Additionally, all of the verticals and horizontals are vertical and horizontal. This is a detail that can easily be over looked in a quick grab shot. It is the sort of thing that requires LOOKING. It is well lit. In fact, the lighting is dramatic, without being overly so. See O. Winston Link for more of this. The train is coming from somewhere (around the bend) and going somewhere. The “Rule of Thirds” has been observed by placing the locomotive squarely on the left 1/3 line where it intersects the lower 1/3 line. This is about as dramatic as you can get! Placing the Nation’s Capitol in the upper right 1/3-1/3 intersection is a nice touch, too. The street lights are distracting, as are the wires. Had Mr. Thomason moved his camera a foot or two to the left, he could have hidden those lights behind the foliage, thus backlighting them, adding to the drama.

In the second photo, there is no horizon, but the verticals are vertical (the trees, the car bodies and windows, the conductor, and the one post). Again, the train is coming around the bend, from somewhere, and thus is going somewhere. There is an interesting contrast between the roadbed between the rails and elsewhere, indicating a well maintained mainline. The photo is well exposed, there are no shadows to interfere with details of the moving parts. It is obvious that the sun was low on the horizon so those details could be seen. I might have tried (and I am sure that he did try) to place the locomotive where the tender and/or the canteen car are, to get a better photo of the locomotive. The problem is that the running gear on those two cars is in the shadows, so this is likely the best compromise. When doing rail photography, you can’t always get the sun and the subject to line up just right, but you have to try. The locomotive is on the left vertical 1/3 line. I might have tried to crop it differently, to put the loco at either the upper or lower intersection, but that is just me. This photo is OK, not great, a good Journeyman photo from a professional photographer. The one above it is much more interesting, much more though provoking.

Just my 2 cents.

#23

Steve Featherkile said:

For normal landscape images, our recommended height for a 1024 pixel wide image is 680 to 768 pixels.

A photographic artist “makes a photograph, he doesn’t just take a picture.”

That’s why I always say I’m not a photographer…I take pictures :wink:

RP doesn’t like you to change the aspect ratio of the photo. They do not like “wide screen” shots.

You will also find they accept very few “tall & narrow” pictures.

So, you need to crop as close to equally from the width & height as possible.

Ralph

#24

Except when you camera use shoots in wide-format pictures.

#25

JD, I took the liberty of enhancing your really excellent “RAW” photo of 765 to give it a bit more pop.

I cropped it quite a lot, so now the subject is the fireman, with 765 herself being a secondary subject. I placed the fireman on that rule of thirds line, with the headlight of 765 being on another 1/3 line. I rotated the photo 1 degree to the right to get the verticals vertical, and fussed with the contrast a bit by changing the “Strength” from “Normal” to “Mild.” I played with the contrast settings, one at a time until I found what was pleasing to my eye. Your mileage may vary. What was pleasing to my eye was that the details of the undercarriage were visible.

By rotating it one degree, I got rid of that unsettling notion that the viewer was adrift in a stormy sea, and not able to say why he felt that way. Little details like that count. The reviewer at RP probably didn’t even realize why he felt that something was amiss, only that something was… amiss.

Anyway, here it is. What do you think?

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/public/album_photo/a8/ac/01/1a9fd_7c3a.jpg)

Is this what you saw in your “mind’s eye” when you made the photograph?

#26

Steve I like the saturation of the original better. By the way did you notice the copyright on the image??

#27

Well, that is what makes a horse race, Mike. :slight_smile: Taking another look, I suspect that you are right. There really isn’t much difference in saturation, though.

As to copyright, I think this falls under the “fair use” provisions, as I am giving JD a critique to try to help him get his photos on RP. If he objects, I will remove the edit. At no time did I claim it as my photo.

For those who don’t know Mike, he is a professional photographer.

#28

I have no prob with the edit Steve, don’t worry about that. Now, if you HAD said it was yours… then I’d have been miffed :smiley:

Anyways, to answer your question, no. While the engine is nice, that type of a crop to me loses much of the feel of being trackside.

When you are there, there is SO much besides the locomotive. In that pic, it seems to me that its just sitting there. With a train attached, with rails in both directions, you can tell she’s on the main, on the move… headed somewhere.

As for the contrast, to my eye, now it reminds me of a screen shot from an old & loved VHS tape.

#29

Ralph Berg said:

Jon Radder said:

Man I wish I could get out there next weekend.

Jon,

The invitation to join us is still open :wink:

I have to foot the bill for a hotel room anyway. You are welcome to stay with me in Harrisburg.

So all it takes is a little gas money, and time.

I plan on shooting both Saturday’s run and Sunday too.

Unless I get some really awesome shots Saturday, then I may just find someplace to run trains on Sunday :wink:

Ralph

Thanks Ralph. Trying to figure out how I could do it. If I only had a nice 40MPG cruiser, but my gas guzzler will do 18-19 at best so it’s not just “a little” gas money :] Just finished up our Graduation trip and with the wedding trip less than a month away my travel budget is about tapped. If there is any way I can swing it I’ll call you.

#30

J.D. Gallaway said:

I have no prob with the edit Steve, don’t worry about that. Now, if you HAD said it was yours… then I’d have been miffed :smiley:

Anyways, to answer your question, no. While the engine is nice, that type of a crop to me loses much of the feel of being trackside.

When you are there, there is SO much besides the locomotive. In that pic, it seems to me that its just sitting there. With a train attached, with rails in both directions, you can tell she’s on the main, on the move… headed somewhere.

As for the contrast, to my eye, now it reminds me of a screen shot from an old & loved VHS tape.

OK, now that I understand what yo were trying to portray, let me offer this… Give the train somewhere to go. Back up a bit, either physically or with “zoom,” so that there is some empty track in front of the 765. If she is underweigh, slow the shutter just a bit and pan, so that the background is blurred a bit, and more importantly, the rods and wheels are blurred, just a bit. That will give the notion that the train is moving more than anything.

This photo by Ben Sutton illustrates the “give the train somewhere to go,” principle. It is almost the same as your photo, 3/4 aspect, fireman hanging out of the window, train behind, but the difference is that the 765 now occupies the left 1/3 kine, and she has somewhere to go. Something that is missing here, that appears in your photo, is the flotsam and jetsam of the cast off rails. Attention to detail is important. The folks at RP only take the best of the best. If you want to be published there, pay attention to what you see in the viewfinder.(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/9/5/2295.1369015223.jpg)

JD, this is not meant to be a put down. You have a good eye. With a few tweaks, you can do it.

#31

I might add… for those things that you can’t control, theres photoshop. BUT it will not make a bad photo into a great photo. Learn to use it wisely, Not as a crutch for bad habits BUT you must LEARN to use it well.

#32

Dave Taylor said:

I might add… for those things that you can’t control, theres photoshop. BUT it will not make a bad photo into a great photo. Learn to use it wisely, Not as a crutch for bad habits BUT you must LEARN to use it well.

I don’t disagree, but I generally don’t “shop” my photos. Many of my hobby photographer friends all shoot in RAW mode and do extensive exposure and color correction in PS. I just don’t want to spend that much time on it. For the snapshots I post on here I’ll sometimes crop and adjust color / contrast with an “auto” button, but that’s about it.

For work I’ll use PS extensively to modify a photo. Change the background, foreground, eliminate distractions etc. but these are for use as presentation tools and generally not something I would consider to be a “photograph” because I’m just not that good at it.

#33

Jon Radder said:

Dave Taylor said:

I might add… for those things that you can’t control, theres photoshop. BUT it will not make a bad photo into a great photo. Learn to use it wisely, Not as a crutch for bad habits BUT you must LEARN to use it well.

I don’t disagree, but I generally don’t “shop” my photos. Many of my hobby photographer friends all shoot in RAW mode and do extensive exposure and color correction in PS. I just don’t want to spend that much time on it. For the snapshots I post on here I’ll sometimes crop and adjust color / contrast with an “auto” button, but that’s about it.

For work I’ll use PS extensively to modify a photo. Change the background, foreground, eliminate distractions etc. but these are for use as presentation tools and generally not something I would consider to be a “photograph” because I’m just not that good at it.

I think what Dave Taylor was trying to say, and what I was certainly saying, was do almost all of your editing in your view finder. Shoot RAW, use the best light possible, compose with thought, and leave some room around the edges for cropping, bracket your shot, then all you have to do in PS is fuss a bit with contrast.

#34

@Steve You’r very right, mostly, Using PS to make a photo better, could include things such as: Removing the 3 beer cans tossed along the right of way that you wouldn’t/couldn’t pick up. Shooting a 40’s styled photo, and having “Con-trails” in the sky. Replacing an e-bay ad on an old building to be used for a vintage set up. Changing D&S yellow cars to “Green” for an ad. Removing the a*s in a orange shirt on photo run by that was hanging out the window shooting the line-up of photogs.

What we used to do under the enlarger, Dodge, Burn, Color burn or dodge, Blur, Soften and etc. we can now do without having a pile of test strips or contrast masks, in 1/20 the time. And without breathing some nasty chemicals.

Using PS properly, means that “NO ONE” can tell that the photo was “altered” or changed. There is very few things that upsets a PS pro more then someone doing a poor job of working a photo.

My bottom line is “If you are going to use a tool(PS) learn to use it well”, And not make it a crutch.

#35

Ken, sorry I never saw your question.

Ken: Where is CP Works?

Jason: CP Works is located about 1.2 miles west of the bridge over Altoona Yard. It controls the west-end of Altoona’s “Rose” Yard and a series of crossovers between the Signalled Siding, main 1 and main two, as well as access to the Juniata Locomotive WORKS via the Works Industrial Track.

Aside from major interlockings lie “C” in johnstown, East Conway, or ZOO in Philly, its probably the busiest because of all the yard & locals, thru freights and all the helper moves relating to operations over the Mountain.

#36

Thanks, JD

After being there in Altoona, I can see why it’s the busiest. It was very busy when we were there.