Large Scale Central

Now HERE'S something ya don't see on every model railroad!

Modeling
#1

Looking for a really UNUSUAL project for your railroad? A piece of rolling stock that’ll REALLY pique curiosity?

Check THIS out.

http://www.chapelcars.com/

If enough details can be found, I can see reworking a coach into this configuration.

Theres only one hunk of rolling stock I can think of that would be even more unusual on your layout…

I’m an ex - Chicagoan, and I still have a big soft spot and fascination for the subway & El train system that serves Chicago (Chicago Transit Authority).

It seems that in the days long before the postwar CTA was organized, one of the independent systems had a very unusual service.

Up until the 1930s, several El stations in densely populated residential areas had elevators from the street to the platforms… but those were found to be unnecessary for thier intended purpose.

Back then, many people held thier wakes and funerals in thier homes.

After the wake, the pallbearers would haul the deceased to the El station; it was found that if there was no elevator available, said pallbearers could manage the coffin up the normal stairs nicely!

Once on the platform, the line would arrange for a FUNERAL CAR, with an oversized cargo door, to arrive. I understand they were black, and sported side curtains and comfortable furniture for the mourners.

I wonder if the motorman wore black?

Apparently at least a couple of cemetaries on the north side of the city (I believe one was Jewish Waldheim???) were served by a spur track, specially meant for the purpose of giving the deceased straphangers thier last ride!

Mr. T.

#2

Thanks, Tom, for one of the most interesting posts I’ve come across on this forum.

Folks just find a way, don’t they?

#3

BTW…

If anyone else out there is interested in the book on chapel cars mentioned in the link I provided, THIS TRAIN IS BOUND FOR GLORY, I’d suggest that you check out Amazon.com ASAP.

New from the publisher, the book goes for $45.00 USD. HOWEVER… in the New / Used category, there are copies going for as little as $1.50 USD plus shipping!!!

I got in an order for a remaindered new copy for $1.99 USD, plus $3.99 USD mailing!!!

This is one of those books with a very limited audience (mainly railroad buffs and religious mission people), and for the moment at least there’s a good supply of cheap copies available.

In any event… I find that the book’s author is involved with restoring a chapel car, and that car is in my general area, within 50 miles of here!

I’ve already written him with some questions, and I’m figuring out a day and time to get to Green Lake, Wisconsin for a photo session, once the snow finally clears out of here and the mud firms up enough to stand on without sinking to my knees!

All in all it sounds like a nice early springtime day trip on the motorcycle.

Mr. T.

#4

Gives new meaning to “Holy Rollers.”

Later,

K

#5

Thanks for the information. I just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon. The timing was perfect. My wife’s cousin, they were more like sisters growing up in Pittsburgh, just celebrated her 50 year Jubilee as a nun in the Catholic Church. She is planning to visit us this summer. I hope to have a passenger coverted to a chapel car before she gets here. What a shock when she see’s the Saint John chapel car running around my layout. Maybe I can get a figure of a pope to put on the rear observation deck.

John

#6
John Spehar said:
Thanks for the information. I just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon. The timing was perfect. My wife's cousin, they were more like sisters growing up in Pittsburgh, just celebrated her 50 year Jubilee as a nun in the Catholic Church. She is planning to visit us this summer. I hope to have a passenger coverted to a chapel car before she gets here. What a shock when she see's the Saint John chapel car running around my layout. Maybe I can get a figure of a pope to put on the rear observation deck.

John


Oh WOW… what a great idea! She’ll LOVE it! :o) Finding a G scale copy of His Holiness might be a bit of a problem tho… especially one wearing an engineer’s cap! ;o)

Since the Baptist chapel car GRACE is the one being restored in this area (Green Lake, WI), I’m thinking in more Protestant terms.

I’ve already gotten EBAY high bid on a used Bachmann coach (Colorado & Western livery), and I’m watching a couple of coach kits without trucks to use as sacrificial lambs for parts (there goes my idea for converting one into Dirty Gertie’s Lunch Wagon!). From the pictures, it looks to me like these cars weren’t standard length coaches, and the walls and roof of a model will have to be lengthened by grafting in sections of the kit car walls and roof. The floor is probably easiest dealt with by just fabricating a new one; I’m thinking basswood sheeting meant for model airplane construction.

Hopefully, a trip to Green Lake with a digital camera and a Harbor Freight laser measuring tape will give me all the dimensional information I might need.

Keep me informed re. how your chapel car is going, and I’ll do the same for you.

Mr. T.

#7

Interesting… I’ve seen pics of funeral cars before but never heard of a chapel car.

#8
John Spehar said:
What a shock when she see's the Saint John chapel car running around my layout. Maybe I can get a figure of a pope to put on the rear observation deck.

John


Something occured to me that I’d forgotten about.

There is a fascinating publication, available online for downloading… THE CIA WORLD FACT BOOK, published by the Central Intelligence Agency. I suppose they researched and assembled this publication as a handy capsule almanac type of reference work for use by other government agencies

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

It gives overview information on most every country on earth… population, ethnic makeup, religions, economy, topographic data, etc. etc. etc.

One of the things it gives is information on transportation systems, including railroads.

The Vatican State is listed as a seperate, legitimate country… as indeed it HAS been ever since it was granted independence from Italy by Mussolini’s Fascist government.

The Vatican State is the smallest RECOGNIZED free standing country on earth… the Monarchy of Sealand (off the coast of Great Britain) is considerably smaller, but it’s sovereignty isn’t universally recognized… the United States certainly doesn’t recognize it’s existance.

Anyway… in at least one edition of the FACT BOOK, I was rather amused to see the railroads entry for The Vatican State. It lists the “country” as having a total trackage of something like 600 yards!

Further Web research reveals this to be a siding off of the Italian State Railway, used mainly for parking the Pope’s private railway coach!

Mr. T.

#9

That’s pretty cool! Never heard of those.

“Holy Rollers” came from a humorous incident during the “Azusa Street” revival. They were meeting in a house on Azusa Street in LA, which is on a hill. The meeting had outgrown the house and people were standing on the porches. One Sunday morning, the back porch collapsed and attendees tumbled down the hill. As I understand, there were no serious injuries.

Not sure where the term “Swinging from the Chandeliers” came from, but it’s sure hard when you have a sore shoulder.

#10
Tom Adams said:
John Spehar said:
Thanks for the information. I just ordered a copy of the book from Amazon. The timing was perfect. My wife's cousin, they were more like sisters growing up in Pittsburgh, just celebrated her 50 year Jubilee as a nun in the Catholic Church. She is planning to visit us this summer. I hope to have a passenger coverted to a chapel car before she gets here. What a shock when she see's the Saint John chapel car running around my layout. Maybe I can get a figure of a pope to put on the rear observation deck.

John


Oh WOW… what a great idea! She’ll LOVE it! :o) Finding a G scale copy of His Holiness might be a bit of a problem tho… especially one wearing an engineer’s cap! ;o)

Hey John… you’re not going to believe this one.

I just stumbled across a G scale model of the Pope on EBAY!!! In fact, SEVERAL Popes, the B.V.M., and somebody who’s apparently the archangel Gabriel!!!

Item number: 130207307938

Thar ya go! Unfortunately, no Casey Jones caps tho…

Mr. T.

#11

Just be careful about buying that G scale Mohammed!

#12

Howdy!

The book THIS TRAIN IS BOUND FOR GLORY arrived yesterday, and I gave it a fast lookover; this looks like it’s gonna be an interesting read!

Picked up an interesting bit of trivia from it already.

The phrase “Hell On Wheels” has it’s roots in railroading!

It seems that during the construction of the transcontinental railroad, on the days off the workers would head to the rail head town that the company established and operated, in search of the necessities of life… i.e., a little bit of R and R.

The railroads set up saloons, operated casinos and poker games, and provided other amusements for the railroad workers. That included importing Ladies of the Evening!

When the End of Tracks had moved too far to make the trip to the rail head town convenient, the whole town was like a circus; everything was taken down, loaded aboard a train, and MOVED to the NEW End of Tracks location, to be set up again.

Considering the amount of questionable activity going on in these portable towns, apparently the church minded early settlers along the railroad route referred to the wild railroad towns as “Hell”, and that trains that transported them as “Hell On Wheels”!!!

Interesting!

Re. chapel cars:

I briefly looked over the information on the chapel car GRACE, and I’m thinking that it might be more reasonable to kitbash one of the earlier cars into a chapel car.

GRACE was the last chapel car made, and as such was the peak of development. It was a steel car, produced by Barney & Smith of Dayton, OH. My original idea of kitbashing a Bachmann coach into a model of GRACE would be a major hassle; the Bachmann’s are wooden cars.

Also… it might not be practical to try to run an accurately modeled car on most layouts.

If you count the basic Bachmann coach as being in 1/24th scale, it measures out to about 37 feet in length, not counting couplers.

GRACE is a custom built monster; she runs about 85 feet long, and weighs in at almost 120,000 pounds!!!

That would result in a G scale car that’s about 42.5" long. Anybody’s layout got curves wide enough to handle THAT without consistent derailing?

I really have to wonder about the restrictions that prototype railroads put on GRACE when hauling her from one location to another; that’s a HELL of a lotta car!!!

The GRACE has a chapel and pulpit, and rows of pews that were 3 people wide (1 x 2, with an aisle down the center). Apparently, in the middle of the car the 1 wide and 2 wide pews swapped sides of the car for a few rows to improve the weight distribution and maintain car balance!

At one end of the car are living quarters for the minister and his family. Apparently, GRACE has a feature that other chapel car inhabitants (known as “colporters”) lusted after, both literally and figuratively; GRACE has a BRASS BED installed! <>

SO… it’s time to look for an older Baptist chapel car to use as a basis for modeling, tho it appears that some of those were pretty long too; one I briefly glanced at was 64 feet long, a do-able figure but still of questionable usefulness on real world layouts.

Mr. T.

Just the same… I still like the idea

#13

So, you’ve got “Hell on Wheels” trains and “Holy Rollers.” Who has right-of-way? :wink:

Later,

K

#14

Sounds like Grace was made from a heavyweight?

#15

I just received my copy of the book on Chapel cars. It cost a total of $7.50 including postage. The book was bran new. It even had the dust cover on and it was in pristeen condition. The Catholic cars, St. Peter and St. Paul were big, over 80 feet long. I decided to make a smaller version of my own and call it the St. John, after my own name of course. I am starting with a Bachman Stephens and Sharp passenger car. I hope to be able to post some pictures.

John

#16

Well… I’m well into the book now, and it’s a fascinating story.

As far as building a model is concerned, it looks like unless I want to do a TOTALLY scratch built, considerable “Modeler’s License” is going to have to be employed here. In addition, I’m going to have to fudge on the total car length; doing it full size, there’s NO WAY it’s gonna make it around curves on Bachmann track radius turns.

At present, I have two coaches that are being considered for sawing off the ends and grafting together to produce a 60’+ coach. Sins committed on the roof during grafting can be neatly hidden by covering the roof with black sandpaper (I was planning to do that in any case; I’ve yet to see two Bachmann coach roofs with matching surfaces!).

One BIG problem that I can’t seem to let pass, even with Modeler’s License:

One thing all of these cars had in common was EXCESSIVE weight for passenger coaches. As a result, they appear to have all used SIX WHEEL TRUCKS! I’m searching the web and catalogs for such beasts, and at the same time considering the unlikely possibility of modifying Bachmann coach trucks.

As for the particular denomination of the projected chapel car… I don’t know. I’m really tempted to go with Neal Diamond’s old song, and decorate the car as BROTHER LOVE’S TRAVELING SALVATION SHOW… but that would probably work better in a tent than a railroad coach! <>

Mr. T.

#17

Just make sure you pack up the babies and grab the old ladies…

#18
Tom Adams said:
As for the particular denomination of the projected chapel car... I don't know. I'm really tempted to go with Neal Diamond's old song, and decorate the car as BROTHER LOVE'S TRAVELING SALVATION SHOW... but that would probably work better in a tent than a railroad coach! <>

Mr. T.


So then it would be a “CHAUTUAQUA” right?

Chas

#19

I am a Disciples of Christ minister and heard about the chapel cars a number of years ago and almost wrote a Ph.D dissertation on them. I got the book when the Taylors first published it. I’ve never met them but I worked with Eldon Ernst, a professor in Berkeley who wrote the foreword and met them a couple of times. In 1997 I did a tour of a number of university and museum archives in California, New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming to do preliminary research, so I have quite a bit of knowledge about how they worked and where they went. John D. Rockefeller was the principal financier of the Baptist chapel cars, at least at the beginning of their history, and they ran free of charge on the railroads until the nationalization of the railroads in World War I. In fact, all ministers in general traveled for free until the government take-over ended the practice.

The chapel cars basically functioned as a substitute church building when a church burned down, or if there was a need for a temporary facility while a new building was erected. The Episcopal cars were used by the bishop for travel in the upper Great Plains. There is a Baptist church in Rawlins, Wyoming where, instead of removing the chapel car, they kept it in place and built the current brick building around the chapel car! The back of the sanctuary is actually the front of the chapel car and they have various artifacts scattered throughout the church building. I visited it in 1997 and have some pictures somewhere I’ll have to dig out.

I have always wanted to build a G scale chapel car but got out of the hobby until just recently, and I’m chomping at the bit to build a chapel car. Not sure which one I’ll use as the prototype yet, but it is good to see some others with an interest in them.

The comments about the origin of the term Hell on wheels is correct. I have also done extensive research on the efforts of railroad companies in California to ban alcohol in the cities they served while the lines were being built. Fascinating stuff.

#20

Dear All,

Wow, interesting thread.

I’m guessing that almost all the chapel cars were standard gauge.

On large scale (gauge 1) 45mm track the correct scale would be 1:32, though the more popular scale is 1:29. This is far different than Bachmann’s 1:22.5 Jackson Sharp coaches. The models would be much shorter in 1:32 or 1:29.

It is possible that 3 foot guage chapel cars did exist. (Colorado perhaps?) Now tracking down pictures, drawings or an actual prototype might be a challenge…

Where would one start looking? … Kevin?

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik