Large Scale Central

No rust buckets here.

Prototypes
#1

I stole this photo fair and square from the Classic Trains Newsletter that came in my email, today. Some of you probably got it, too. I use the photo to illustrate something that has puzzled me for a long time; why do folks in this hobby (some) insist on weathering their locomotives to the point that they do not appear safe to operate, with rust dripping off them?

As you can see in the photo, these brutes are very well maintained, sparkling, even. Yeah, they were probably spruced up for the photo shoot, but I really doubt that much effort was spent, beyond a general titivation.

There ain’t no rust, here. Even the shop floor is clean.

#2

Hard to tell in Black and White.

#3

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Hard to tell in Black and White.

Hard to tell what?

#4

I agree, some modeler tend to overdo the weathering. But, contrary to your point, old colour films from the 50s show that steam locomotives, in hard freight service, were (sometimes) quite filthy. As for rust, there wasn’t much that remember seeing, but a little probably wouldn’t be unprototypical. Depending of course on what was rusted and how bad.

#5

Perhaps from the 50’s, but that photo is not from the 50’s. That is from an era when the steam locomotives were well cared for.

I agree, in the 50’s, not much money was spent on maintaining the steamers, as they were being phased out as soon as they could be replaced by diseasals. However, earlier than that, before diseasals were practical, and steamers ruled the rails, they were very well maintained.

#6

Even here, in another photo from the series, taken in the late 40’s, very early 50’s by Lynn Wescott, the Mike is well cared for. Yes, there is a bit of surface rust on the tender around a steam fitting for the Bunker “C” heater, but that is all. The locomotive has a thin coat of dust, but then its been hard at work. No rust to be seen on the Mike at all.

(http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Images/The%20Way%20it%20Was/Photo%20of%20the%20Day/Large%20Images/Photo%20of%20the%20Day/2014/02/20140219.jpg)

You might have to “Right click and view image” to see the full frame, if this is too big.

#7

Two giant H-class 4-8-4s dwarf an E-class 4-6-2 parked between them at Chicago & North Western’s terminal in Chicago during the 1940s.
C&NW photo

Richard

#8

I like them clean like they came from the shop. I also don’t like graffitti on my rolling stock.

I’m with you Steve.

Greg

#9

My grandfather worked for the NKP and they took great pride in keeping their equipment clean and cared for. I agree, I don’t care for the giant rust buckets either.

By the way, cool pics!

Terry

#10

Not posting this to be argumentative or to try to change any minds, as that is pretty much impossible but posting a picture of main line steam power from the heyday of steam and saying “look all steam locomotives were clean and neat, and this proves it” has no more meaning than if you had done the opposite.

Steam locomotives were hard used machines and their purpose was to turn dollars for the owner. If conditions allowed them to turn a lot of dollars then more of those dollars could be reinvested in the maintenance of the equipment if not then upkeep and repair were usually the first things to suffer.

Some people prefer to model one set of conditions and some the other set of conditions, I guess there is no accounting for taste;) :slight_smile:

Rick

#11

Rick Marty said:

Not posting this to be argumentative or to try to change any minds, as that is pretty much impossible but posting a picture of main line steam power from the heyday of steam and saying “look all steam locomotives were clean and neat, and this proves it” has no more meaning than if you had done the opposite.

Steam locomotives were hard used machines and their purpose was to turn dollars for the owner. If conditions allowed them to turn a lot of dollars then more of those dollars could be reinvested in the maintenance of the equipment if not then upkeep and repair were usually the first things to suffer.

Some people prefer to model one set of conditions and some the other set of conditions, I guess there is no accounting for taste;) :slight_smile:

Rick

Most steam engines were kept clean because the crews depended on them for their livelihood. AND they had some pride; in their job and their equipment.

At the risk of putting a few noses out of joint: “Show me the tools/workplace of someone to get my impression of the individual”.

#12

It’s much easier to find photos of rusty diseasmals than steamers

#13

Is that really rust, or just dirt?

#14

My Take?

Many RR hobbyists especially large scalers like to model narrow gauge RR’s and history shows us that this type of operation usually had its heyday then died a slow miserable death where the equipment was run ragged. Many of us like the appeal of the old timey photos where tough, tired but prideful men posed with their worn out trains. It is a somewhat romantic and certainly nostalgic look back. I’m sure those hardened men loved their locos but if the owners didn’t have cash flow the workers did the best they could and this feelign is what many of us try to capture by weathering our trains. My detailing is limited to painting what is supposed to be wood, brown.

Another Take is that steam engines have a soul much like a old car (I’m thinking old British cars) They had names, personalities and if you didn’t love them they would leave you stranded. I don’t think a diesel engineer has the same love affair with his engine as a steam engineer did.

It is all about PRIDE.

#15

Todd, I agree. A piece of equipment, like a steam locomotive, has to maintained enough to keep it running. Many of these “rust buckets” I have seen modeled would not be operational, or at least not operational for long. I do like some of my equipment weathered, but not to the point of being dilapidated. A hard working piece of equipment will get dirty, but I don’t want my equipment to look abused, just not sparking clean. The exception is number 7, she is the pride of the fleet and pulls the varnish (passenger train). She is kept clean and shiny as a matter of pride to the railroad. The rest of my steam locomotives either pull coal drags, or log loads, so they would be expected to be a bit dirty, at least by me.

#16

I agree with you Todd. I tried to look over some of my old narrow gauge photos and it is impossible to determine if there is any rust. But I can tell if the paint is tarnished from use and that is what I try to accomplish with my weathering.

I would also add, that I have not seen too many photos of cleaning stations on a narrow gauge line, but all of the Class 1 railroads had cleaning stations for their equipment.

In the end, its your train. Run it how you like!

#17

Look carefully at the diesel pics the rust is road grime not rusty steel hoods and body panels.
I live near NS mainline that sees 1or 2 trains an hour and see newly painted NS diesels turn" rusty" from rusty water spray off the rails and infrequent ( if ever) washings.
Steam in it’s heyday saw locos steamcleaned frequently as the went through the shops.
Steam locos saw shops far more frequently than diesels so were cleaner.

#18

Yes, but the logging and narrow gauge lines frequently performed “deferred maintenance”. In other words, they only fixed what was broken. So road grime and maybe a little rust might be appropriate for that type of equipment. But, a little rust, maybe some staining washed down from the clean-out plugs, or some rust stains near the water injector vent. But not the balls of rust some modelers like to portray.

Of course this is just my opinion, your mileage may vary, tax and title not included.

:wink:

#19

P&CS number 1. Just a little rust on her.

#20

I prefer the dusty, sooty look myself. The thing with steam locos is that they’re oiled so frequently, and get so grimy with gunk that rust doesn’t have much of a chance to form on areas like the running gear, frame, etc. You’ll find small patches here and there on the cab, jacket and other surfaces, but not likely on the working surfaces.

Compare to a diesel, where the critical workings are tucked under the sheet metal. They’re going to be well-maintained since that’s what keeps the locomotive moving. But the exterior? Well, a rusty hood doesn’t stop the loco from pulling cars.

Later,

K