Large Scale Central

No laffin' - newbie-style track question

Track and Trestles
#1

Mornin’ All - tac here in yUK, needing some help on the subject of Aristocraft set track [remember, I asked for no laffin’ - it’s pretty cheap here compared with Llagas and SVR stuff, and we ARE a bunch of flinskints].

My little group has the idea of using the largest diameter Aristocraft circle on a portable layout to run around near the club-house on our 7.25" track open days.

I have already been given some great ideas for the track module construction from Dwight Enniss and others, but I have a couple of rigid wheelbase G1 locos that decidedly unhappy even on 10-foot radius track.

Do any of you have a programme that will show me the results of using the 6" lengths of straight between each curved section to open it out a bit more? And if so, by how much? Enough to get the ‘real’ 20ft circle inside with enuff room to run?

Trouble is, my pal Broos and I have a wide range of models between us, from true G1 right up to 1/20.3 - in fact, even a few G1 passenger cars are almost 32 inches long - imagine the long USA Trains stainless stuff to give you an idea.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Best wishes to all

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#2

No problem Terry - You end up with about an 11.5 Foot circle according to RR Track. The grid squares in the following is 12 inch.

JR EDIT - I just re-read your question. You wanted to see 20 Foot… — STAND BY —

#3

TAC, my recommendation would be to use 5’ sections of Aristo track and a rail bender rather than sticking in 1’ sections of straight…which to me would look like hell. The “bent” track would also provide a much smoother appearance of your runs too. This would also allow you to have easements from straight runs which long wheelbased locomotives would appreciate much more. Almost anything I’ve seen should run quite ok on Aristo 20’ diameter track. I’ve run the USAT passenger cars on diameter as tight as 14’ without problems.

#4

Jon Radder said:
I just re-read your question. You wanted to see 20 Foot… — STAND BY —

OK - Redeaux as 20 Foot woth 6" sections

Looks like you get a 22 Foot circle as a result. JR

#5

Yo Warren and John - very many thanks for your help and advice, I hears ya fine. Trouble is that we does not have a rail bender, and as there are only the two of us doing it on a budget that does not exist, we are loathe to invest in a rail bender for one job - especially in view of the thing costing more twice as much as the track here in yUK. The ‘team’ - my pal Broos and I - don’t need a railbender outside this job - he has all-Aristo sectional track in his backyard, and I have old Tenmille stuff that is nigh on 20 years old - the committee would not be too pleased if I stuck them with a bill for $400 of track and $600 for a bender.

Must think of something else, maybe 0n3…

Best wishes

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#6
Terry A de C Foley said:
[i][/i]- the committee would not be too pleased if I stuck them with a bill for $400 of track and $600 for a bender. [i][/i]
That's a mighty pricey bender. On this side of the pond an Aristo bender sells for under $100 US. It's not the best, but it works.

JR

#7

TAC,

Looks like a typical job for the Train.li trackbender, but unless you can start a rental business - every club in England! - it is “pricey”!

The other variant would be opening up the Aristo-track without use of a proper bender, but, depending on the stress that’s in the different sections, that may not be all that even and smooth. If I would try that I would use two fix points and for the third point - center of the curve - a hydraulic or mechanical jack.

#8

I’m with Jon on this one…$600 for a rail bender…!! I paid $100 for my Aristo bender. I can get benders for 7 1/2" gauge for $600.00…!!

#9
Warren Mumpower said:
I'm with Jon on this one....$600 for a rail bender..!! I paid $100 for my Aristo bender. I can get benders for 7 1/2" gauge for $600.00..!!
Warren,

I don’t know which bender TAC was looking at, but the bender that Stephan Flück produces would open up that 20ft Aristo stuff and since it does both rails in one fell swoop, it’s very nice even if it is 330 Swiss francs or 220 Euro. http://www.train.li/produkte/Biegeschlitten/uebersicht.htm

Very handy to get track bent exactly to the way you want and need it. :wink:

TAC which bender is $600?? Pray tell!

#10

Thinking (can’t you hear the gears grind?) about putting straights between the pre-bent rails won’t really give you a bigger circle, will they? The track is pre-bent to a certain curve and no matter how much you extend it, it wouldn’t help?
I have wide radiys curves on my layout and just made a form out of plywood and carefully bent the track around it. For some I just carefully bent it over my knee! It workesd fine. I used LGB tie strips and that took care of any variences.

#11

Two problems exist with hand bent rail. One is that you can get a poor transition from one rail to the next and the other is memory. If the track gets really warm it will try to straighten itself back out. This can really screw a layout.

#12

I agree that could really be a problem but we live on the Southern California desert and so far the track has behaved itself. Is that because it is brass track?

#13

Doug,

Brass rail is usually drawn - pulled through a drawing die - in order to get the profile. That will introduce certain stresses.

If you look at curved sections of track you’ll notice serrations on the web part of the profile. Those are apparently produced by running the rail through a commercial bender - I haven’t been to a factory where they produce track, yet!
The serrations will generate a separate set of material stresses and as long as you don’t exceed whatever tolerance there is in those stresses the track will keep its memory, even the adjusted memory.

Or at least that’s the theory!

#14
Warren Mumpower said:
I'm with Jon on this one....$600 for a rail bender..!! I paid $100 for my Aristo bender. I can get benders for 7 1/2" gauge for $600.00..!!
OK, guys- here's the deal for the Train-li double rail bender -

Price in USA from maker - all in USD - 256.00
Rail parallel-keeper 25.00
Priority mail plus insurance 78.75

Total price in USD $368.75

On arrival in UK - total cost of item and shipping and insurance $368.75 + 17.5% Value Added Tax = $433.28 + 33% Excise duty on technical instruments/tools from outside the EU = $577.56

Plus 12% handling charge on total charge so far, by postal services = $646.86.

Well, dang me, I gorts it wrong agin! I undercharged myself.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#15
Warren Mumpower said:
Two problems exist with hand bent rail. One is that you can get a poor transition from one rail to the next and the other is memory. If the track gets really warm it will try to straighten itself back out. This can really screw a layout.
Sadly we can only get the five-foot lengths of track here in yUK, so I guess we'll be having to bite the bullet and buy a rail bender. Even the Aristocraft version is over $200 here - if there were any to be had. Might just send over for one, on the off-chance it might sneak through as a curtain-rail bender....

Best from UK

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#16

TAC:

I got a Lindsay single rail bender from California & Oregon Coast Railway. It is built better and works much better than my friend’s AristoCraft bender. I don’t see any need for a double rail bender, especially for short lengths.

I think C&OCRwy’s current (ex: Oregon) price is ~$85.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#17

That’s great information on the brass rail and really explains how I was able to get away with bending it without a rail bender. The tightest curve I ever did was about 15-foot radius so I never had trouble with it.

#18
Terry A de C Foley said:
Warren Mumpower said:
I'm with Jon on this one....$600 for a rail bender..!! I paid $100 for my Aristo bender. I can get benders for 7 1/2" gauge for $600.00..!!
OK, guys- here's the deal for the Train-li double rail bender -

Price in USA from maker - all in USD - 256.00
Rail parallel-keeper 25.00
Priority mail plus insurance 78.75

Total price in USD $368.75

On arrival in UK - total cost of item and shipping and insurance $368.75 + 17.5% Value Added Tax = $433.28 + 33% Excise duty on technical instruments/tools from outside the EU = $577.56

Plus 12% handling charge on total charge so far, by postal services = $646.86.

Well, dang me, I gorts it wrong agin! I undercharged myself.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS


Terry,

If the bender is Made in Switzerland, why order it from the USA distributor?

Don’t get me wrong, whatever business is going Axel’s way is just fine by me; but if you’re as frugal as you guys usually proclaim I’d be ordering from CH.

Of course that is strictly my opinion! :wink: :slight_smile:

PS Freight out of CH could be less, too. Have him declare it as a Swiss barrel straightener. :lol: or as a chocolate former :lol:

#19

Yo H-j - I had no idea that train-li was a Swiss maker - as I only found the Swiss site AFTER seeing your post. It looks to be a very nice piece of typical Swiss machinery. I note that they seem to have one for G1 code 200 track and another version of the same thing for IIm track.

Aha - just been called back by Mr Cliff barker, famed track-maker for the G1MRA, who tells me that his code 200 track will happily take everything we have here, from G1 to LGB and the 1/20.3 Accucraft biggies too.

Phew…only need one bender then.

Anyhow, the answering machine says they are away at Sinsheim…

Best wishes from EA

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#20
Jerry Bowers said:
TAC: I got a Lindsay single rail bender from California & Oregon Coast Railway. It is built better and works much better than my friend's AristoCraft bender. I don't see any need for a double rail bender, especially for short lengths. I think C&OCRwy's current (ex: Oregon) price is ~$85. Happy RRing, Jerry
Yo Jerry - many thanks for the steer towards Oregon! I have just e-mailed them to see if their bender will go down to code 200 section.

Best wishes

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS