Just happened upon an ad in MRH (model railroad hobbyist magazine). The ad was for “wow sound” I clicked on the sound samples for diesels and was very impressed with the diesel but not so much with the steam sounds. For $99 bucks it’s as good as or better than my PHOENIX sound. Try it here
http://www.tcsdcc.com/WOWSound.php
Bill
Interesting. I like it.
So several people have bought and installed the unit.
My opinion is that it is not as good sounding as Phoenix, but it is newer technology.
The combination motor/sound decoder is $199, same price as other large scale motor/sound decoders.
Yes the sound only is $99, much cheaper than Phoenix, but Phoenix is the last of a dying breed of stand-alone sound units and is overpriced and old tech.
The chuff on these decoders sounds like white noise to me, not enough “attack” or bark, just louder under load.
Greg
Hi Bill and Steve, just for the record the G scale decoder has a MSRP of $199.
https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/WOWSound/WOWDiesel.php
Tony’s Train Exchange
https://tonystrains.com/product/tcs-1600-wow501-steam-large-scale-sound-decoder/
has them for $159 (steam or diesel). They just came out with the large scale version. I talked to TCS rep today at the Big E Train show (Amherst Train Show). It is suppose to handle 5 amps continuous current. I pick one up today to try out.
Steve
Just opened the package and read the instructions and noticed that the specifications say 4 amps continuous, 5 amps peak, this is contrary to what the rep said. The manual also speaks of smoke control but doesn’t give any information on it. I think the decoder is so new the documentation has not caught up with the new version because TCS website doesn’t have the manual online. I guess I’ll have to cross my fingers.
Steve
Thanks for all the info and comments on the sound. I decided to buy one and try it out in my GE9-40. I have a GE with Phoenix to compare the two and Will get back with the details as soon as i can get it installed and working.
Bill
Are you talking about the WOW-501? Been waiting over a year for the release, been promised many times. The HO crowd is getting all the attention with the WOW product line.
I have used the WOW-121 in a single motor Bachmann Forney and works really sweet. It is rated at 2 amps.
Make sure you use a quality speaker with a large magnet to bring out the bass sounds.
Dennis
That’s the one
Thank you for the info
Bill
Hi Dennis, yes its the WOW 501 that was suppose to be out last year. I’m trying to install one in my NW-2 but the documentation that came with the board leaves a lot to be desired. TCS website has not caught up with the product and doesn’t have any details to offer. Simple things like forward and reverse head light information does not state if when using LED s whether or not to calculate the resistor value from five volts or twelve volts. It shows a pin to connect he light/LED to but not sure if the other lead goes to the ground cathode or the twelve volt + common. Other things like smoke coil and fan details are also missing. Seems like the supplied four page document was a spin off of their smaller decoders manuals and only the picture of the board was changed.
Thanks
Steve
The headlight “outputs” are really just switches to ground. You supply positive voltage from a common. if you use the 12v common, then you calculate resistors based on 12v - the forward drop of your led, usually around 3 volts.
(common for leds is positive, never ground)
I looked at the literature, no links for the large scale decoders.
And I assume you did indeed pay $199, not $99, right?
Really same cost as most top line Gscale sound decoders, so if you don’t like it, you could buy a QSI or Massoth or ESU or Zimo for the same or less.
Let us know how you like it… also if there are dedicated function outputs for a smoke unit.
Greg
I’m glad to see the 5-amp version finally out. I’ve got a project sitting on the bench that’s been waiting for this decoder to materialize. I’ve been using the 2-amp versions in some small large scale locos, and also my On30 mogul. I’m very impressed with them. Motor control is very smooth, and the sounds are great. I will agree to some extent with Greg that the chuff isn’t as nuanced as other decoders, leastwise the differences in “light,” “medium,” and “heavy” are hard to pinpoint in my installations, but I’m also using 3/4" speakers so not a whole lot of bass frequency response when compared to my Soundtraxx, Zimo, and QSI installs with 2" - 4" speakers. Having said that, there’s nothing I find out of sorts with it, either. The “version 4” software is–from what I’ve heard on YouTube videos and the like–a vast improvement in how it responds to loads, speed changes, etc. Both of my WowSteam decoders are version 3, though I’ll be shipping my On30 decoder to be upgraded in short order. (The 5-amp boards will ship natively with version 4 of the software, so there’s no worry there.)
The diesel sounds are fantastic. I’ve got one in my LGB Davenport, and to hear it automatically adjust to changes in load as it runs around the back yard is seriously cool. It’s far more responsive to change in that respect than any of my QSI installs, and beats the doors off of the Zimo decoder I originally had in that loco with regard to sound. The project awaiting this decoder is an LGB White Pass kitbash.
I’m also fond of TCS’s F7 brake function. Set your deceleration setting to something outlandishly high, then to slow down you have to hit the F7 button to apply the brake. The more times you press it, the faster the loco stops. There are 5 steps in this, and I’ve got the 5th step set to stop almost instantly, so it’s my de facto emergency stop button.
Later,
K
Steve Mitchell said:
Hi Dennis, yes its the WOW 501 that was suppose to be out last year. I’m trying to install one in my NW-2 but the documentation that came with the board leaves a lot to be desired. TCS website has not caught up with the product and doesn’t have any details to offer. Simple things like forward and reverse head light information does not state if when using LED s whether or not to calculate the resistor value from five volts or twelve volts. It shows a pin to connect he light/LED to but not sure if the other lead goes to the ground cathode or the twelve volt + common. Other things like smoke coil and fan details are also missing. Seems like the supplied four page document was a spin off of their smaller decoders manuals and only the picture of the board was changed.
Thanks
Steve
TCS has a standard wiring configuration on all the decoders no matter what scale decoder you use. NMRA also defines how the Functions operate, they are always open collector and when turned on they go to ground. The Blue wire or ‘+’ terminal is always power out to use for all your lights. sound or animation, normally 12 volt.
TCS has a document on how there line of decoders work. but it is not completely up to date but close.
and also this manual on lights
http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Manuals/WiringLights.pdf
I have 4 of the G8 decoders ($79.95 on Ebay), these are the same as the new WOW-501 but without sound. Been using them in my 2 Shays, Goose and Climax. They work very well and easy to hook up. have not had one failure on there decoders.
Hope this helps.
Interesting about the multiple brake levels, pretty cool.
I’m surprised to hear “far more responsive than QSI”… Kevin I have read your questions in the QSI forum and I can tell you did not fully understand the sound of power and all the other settings that affect the reflection of the load in the sound. Perhaps you have not tried those settings and suggestions yet.
I know from personal experience you can make it wildly responsive, way more than the prototype. (Although often we like a bit of exaggeration in sound effects)
So, not sure of that comparison, but the rest of your statement mirror my experience… I was mostly disappointed in the chuff, the sound really needs the “3 part” sound that many decoders use, beginning, sustain, decay. It’s been used by many decoders in the chuff and whistle, the WowSound chuff just sounds like on/off white noise, with some volume modulation.
But, looks like the firmware is updated by putting new code in the SD card, so it should be simple to add this feature. In any case, the more the merrier, more options for the hobby.
I’ll have to have a listen to the diesel again, or maybe buy one of the G scale units.
Have you played with any BEMF controls yet?
G
To the QSI issues, yes, I’ve played with the “sound of power” settings, and have no complaints about the way the sounds on any of my QSI boards respond to changes in speed, or how it interacts as I adjust the throttle under heavy momentum to affect changes in the sound. It does not, however, respond nearly as much to changes in grade, drag, etc. as the TCS board as it simply runs around the line and encounters those changes. That could be the result of any number of factors, including software and specific sound files.
When you ask if I’ve played with the BEMF yet, to which decoder are you referring, and with respect to what? On the QSI, I’ve played with the BEMF often trying to affect its performance one way or the other, though I would need you to be more specific with respect to which parameters you’re thinking about.
With respect to the TCS, you program the BEMF on the decoder similar to how you do on a Zimo–by running it light on level track to set a “no load” baseline. Then with the TCS, you then run it under full load to set a “high end” baseline. This is with the diesel; I believe the version 4 steam file does the same thing. The version 3 does not.
The BEMF-controlled chuff is very good; accurate throughout the speed range once you set it.
Later,
K
The BEMF on the TCS, sorry.
Once you do a “calibrate”, can you read the PID parameters that were set and/or can you modify individual PID parameters and in speed ranges?
The manual for this unit is pretty much missing from their, I guess you go by the older HO manual?
Greg
Hi Greg and Kevin, I bought two diesel wow-501 decoders at the Amherst Train Show. I paid $159 each for a savings of around $100 (for the two) over the cost of other high end motor and sound decoders. I know the other decoders do have higher current capabilities with extra niceties and I do have QSI in my steam but my diesels are on a budget. I thought about the ECO-400 by SoundTraxx at $110 each but the 4 amp max had me a little concerned. I’m waiting for some speakers I ordered from Robbies to come in and I will probably contact TCS for some updated information.
Some noticeable absentees from the Amherst show was QSI and Dallee. I had a nice discussion with Nancy Workman of SoundTraxx and no matter how hard I tried, I could not convince them to make a higher current motor/sound decoder. I thought with a few component changes they could get the marginal eco-400 up to a large scale users needs. She told me the demand just wasn’t there.
Thanks
Steve
I waited 6 years for promises on a LS Tsunami, gave up went elsewhere.
You can get other LS decoders at a discount too, they all seem to have a list price of $199.
I don’t know what SoundTraxx’ problem is, but the fact that TCS could enter the market shows that the demand is there, and more and more people are using DCC decoders, for DCC, AirWire, DeadRail and analog.
Have fun with them and let us know the pro’s and con’s as you go forwards.
Greg
Can you guys comment on the two sound outputs? Both QSI and TCS have amplifiers for two speakers, correct? Can you send different sounds to each output? For example, prime mover to the back one, bells/horn, etc to the front/other? What are your observations on two channel sound? Does it really sound better or is it not so big a deal? Is one better than the other in this regard? This is for an Aristo Dash9.
With regard to the BEMF of the TCS and PID adjustments, I don’t recall seeing anything in the manuals about adjusting those parameters, nor with the WowSound boards can you turn BEMF off, as you can on the QSI. You can, once you’ve calibrated the loco for light and heavy loads, have it read back the CVs, or manually calibrate the responses by adjusting the 4 CVs for light and heavy loads respectively. (It’s in the advanced programming guide.) From what I’ve read on the forums, if you’re going to go that route, it’s advisable to do so via Decoder Pro.
Having said that, the motor control on the installs I’ve done has been very good out of the gate, so I’ve not had reason to go looking to make adjustments. My first install (LGB Porter) lurches a little from stop to speed step 1, but the speed at step 1 is very slow, and you only notice it when you actually just jump from stop only to step 1, which I almost never do because I want to actually get to where I’m going. My diesel board and the one I’ve got in my On30 mogul are very smooth from stop to step 1. (Note: I use 28 steps, not 128.)
As to the manuals, the programming manual (like QSI, Zimo, Soundtraxx and others) will be the same for all decoders with that version of the software, regardless of the form factor. Each form factor has its specific manual for wiring, though the new large scale decoder doesn’t appear to be on the web site yet.
As for Soundtraxx, they’ve got the 4-amp Econami, and according to their web site, still plan a 4-amp version of their Tsunami2. I don’t consider that “marginal” for large scale. It’s perhaps underpowered for something like a Dash-9 pulling 30 cars, but for a typical two-motor loco pulling 10 - 15 cars? It’s not going to break a sweat. I had one in my B’mann K-27, and it worked great. (I’ve since moved it to my B’mann mogul because I shifted a bunch of decoders and sound systems around recently to better match the decoder capability to how I run each particular loco.)
Martin, to my knowledge, the TCS has only one speaker output, unless something has changed from the photo on their web site. In terms of the QSI’s two-channel audio output, it’s cool, but its efficacy depends on the distance between the two speakers and your typical distance from your trains. I’ve got two locos set up with dual speakers; a center cab and a Climax. With the center cab, it’s got dual prime movers, so I’ve got the board set so each of the prime movers goes specifically to the speaker under that hood. The bell and whistle are likewise split so to come from the appropriate end. On the Climax, I’ve got a big bass speaker in the tender, and a small 1" speaker in the smokebox. For this one, I adjust the balance to shift the sounds somewhere in the middle, so the bell and whistle sound like they’re coming from just in front of the cab. The chuff has just enough high frequency coming from the smokebox to shift that forward, though with the size of the speaker in the bunker, the chuff sounds like it’s coming from the firebox as opposed to the smokebox. If I were to shift the chuff any more forward, I’d lose the bass frequencies. If I’m right next to the loco, you can definitely tell, and it’s pretty cool. From 15’ away, the effect blends into the woodwork. At 30’ away, you can’t tell. I had done a 3rd loco (USA NW-2) with two speakers, but the two speakers were only about 6" apart, so the effect was pretty much wasted. I can’t remember if I pulled the 2nd speaker or not to be honest. I just put another QSI in my B’mann “Connie,” which right now has a big speaker in the tender. It sounds great, but I’m leaning towards re-doing that install with a speaker in the smokebox instead. I’ll probably set that up as a dual speaker set-up similar to the Climax so I can use the tender speaker for the bass response if I can’t get adequate bass from the smokebox.
Later,
K
The Zimo MX699 line starts at less than $200 and have programmable sound, programmable smoke heater and fan settings, 4 servos, susi bus, MTS serial capability, supercaps for dead spots on the track, 10 watt audio into a 4 ohm load, and manuals in english at zimo.at.
Plus for under $100 the HO decoder (MX645) is rated for largescale and works great in the small 1 motor engines.