A cute startset! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
http://www.piko.de/d/Neuheitenauslieferungen/Herbstneuheiten08/TLN_Herbstneuheiten08.php?navid=137
Zbigniew Struzik said:Afternoon, Zubi!! I hafta say that the cars look a LOT like those formerly made by a certain three-lettered organisation, but the loco just busts me up!!!
A cute startset! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi http://www.piko.de/d/Neuheitenauslieferungen/Herbstneuheiten08/TLN_Herbstneuheiten08.php?navid=137
It looks exactly like a drawing! [snigger]
A bad one.
Best
tac
Late night here Terry! Yes, funny how they can process photos these days - indeed it looks like a drawing… cute! Although a standard gauge thing, it reminds me of my first set - the famous Zeuke BR 80! I think it will be PIKOpular! Best wishes, Zubi. PS I really regret we will miss each other in JULY!!! (pizza!!!
Looks like Wilfer found a bargain at MDC (or wherever ). The unofficial price for the Starter set is less than 200 Euro, supposedly the engine will only be available in the Starter set. Either way it will be a shot across the bow of Märklin, considering that one of the first items they ran: orecars in the DB livery.
About as proto for DB as the PIKO stuff.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:...and a CHEAP shot at that! ( I ment that in a nice way!) :D :D :D
Either way it will be a shot across the bow of Märklin... .
The 1:32 scale (ex mdc?) hoppers should go well with the 1:24scale (ex mdc?) transfer caboose.
Does anyone know what the scale of the loco is claimed to be?
TonyWalsham said:
The 1:32 scale (ex mdc?) hoppers should go well with the 1:24scale (ex mdc?) transfer caboose.Does anyone know what the scale of the loco is claimed to be?
YUs. It is all claimed to be, uh, ‘G’…whatever THAT means.
Actually, the word ‘scale’ with a fractional number in front of it does not seem to appear anywhere - only the letter ‘G’.
The loco still looks like a [very bad] artist’s impression to me…
Best graders
tac
Not to worry about scale, remember who adjusted the first LGB steam engine to come up with “the most pleasing proportions” possible?? He could be consulted to do that magic on the BR80, too, you just never know.
Good marketing move.
Piko probably got the ex MDC tooling for a song.
Don’t know about the loco.
I cannot imagine that any LS Company would offer it only in sets.
Unless of course it ends up so toy like and rubbery in scale it could not possibly sell on its own.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:H-J - the only large-scale mass-produced BR80 so far made is/was the Maerklin version - in 1/32nd scale Gauge 1. It is also a pretty complex model as well, full of detail and piping, domes and nooks and crannies, and prolly cost a whole shed-load of load of money to make the dies for in the fust place - way back when.
Not to worry about scale, remember who adjusted the first LGB steam engine to come up with "the most pleasing proportions" possible?? He could be consulted to do that magic on the BR80, too, you just never know. ;)
I truly cannot see even PIKO having the spare funds to make a NEW set of dies in an as-yet unknown larger scale, but I am prepared to be proven wrong.
Remember that the MDC hoppers are pretty small, and would fit in admirably with this loco even if it were to be in G1.
tac
I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting on the starter set. If they don’t even have a preproduction model of the loco to photograph yet, it might be a while.
Ralph
Ralph,
I don’t know about others, but I’m not holding my breath. Doesn’t fit my railway, has Zilch in the kitbash potential.
TonyWalsham said:
...............I cannot imagine that any LS Company would offer it only in sets.
Unless of course it ends up so toy like and rubbery in scale it could not possibly sell on its own.
Tony,
How does this sound: Sell it strictly as a starter set item for the first two years, then offer it as a separate item. Hasn’t that been done before? Just imagine all the stuff you move doing that! 
The Taurus and the BR218 are “G1.5”, that by itself doesn’t deter people. I don’t expect the BR80 to be different.
Terry A de C Foley said:It's [i]literally[/i] the fine print on the logo--1:22.5. Hard to see, but it's there. Especially strange since all their prototypes so far are of standard gauge prototypes. I'm not sure what's worse--not stating a scale, or stating an absolutely incorrect one.
... Actually, the word 'scale' with a fractional number in front of it does not seem to appear anywhere - only the letter 'G'.
Later,
K
Deliberately stating an incorrect scale to sell them would be worse.
If of course that actually happens.
One wonders how such a misrepresentation could be allowed nowadays.
Still bigger things have been sold on bigger lies.
Kevin Strong said:Terry A de C Foley said:It's [i]literally[/i] the fine print on the logo--1:22.5. Hard to see, but it's there. Especially strange since all their prototypes so far are of standard gauge prototypes. I'm not sure what's worse--not stating a scale, or stating an absolutely incorrect one.
... Actually, the word 'scale' with a fractional number in front of it does not seem to appear anywhere - only the letter 'G'.Later,
K
Kevin, Obviously I need a new battery in my eyesight aid… no wonder the hoppers looked so small.
I betcha it’s a simplified model then…with lots of moulded-on detail…a bit like
No, I mustn’t say it.
tac
While everyone is assuming that Piko has the rights to the ex-MDC tooling, has anyone considered the possibility that LGBoA/Silvergate Distributors might in fact own the tooling and under an arrangement with Dr. Wilfer, the items will be produced in China at the new Piko facility? I really do not see Dr. Wilfer buying the tooling as it is outside his normal prototype preference. This would explain Silvergate’s promotion of the Piko range and provide a financial return. I feel that LGBoA was determined to become a manufacturer in their own right and picked up the tooling for a bargain basement price. In reality, who else other than a Chinese budget toy train manufacturer would show interest in the range? It really is a duck out of water product for the mainstream largescaler and would generally be regarded as nothing more than a basic toy.
With a little added detail, the ore car and the two-bay hopper would find ready acceptance. I feel, however, that should the boxcar/reefer be released, then it would find critical acceptance. Who knows, the LGBoA American 0-6-0 switcher, may find a reincarnation, albeit with non Lehmann sourced tooling. I really do not see Piko investing in tooling expanding outside the European prototype scenario. Euro standard gauge is an ideal niche market for them and not as competitive as the Euro narrow-gauge arena.
I don’t find the tooling ownership to be terribly material. It’s nice to see them back in production. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Silvergate started to work with Piko to get stuff produced. Given their history with LGB, it’s almost a foregone conclusion.
What’s more important to me as a consumer is whether they’d to maintain the “fast and loose” scaling that was prevalent under the LGB banner, or if they will buckle down and become stronger competitors with Aristo and USA, sticking to one consistent scale (even if it’s not 100% accurate for the track gauge). No longer being confined by LGB’s policies on size and curve compatibility, I would hope to see them steer more towards becoming a strong competitor specifically in the US market.
From what I’ve seen so far, Piko seems to be where Aristo was when they first started out. They want their trains to be “visually compatible” with all the European LGB stuff that’s already on the market, but they want to do standard gauge prototypes. So, they’ve seemed to choose a compromise scale that allows them to do this. That gives me a bit of hope that maybe they’ve got a more scale-oriented mindset–even if they can’t label their boxes correctly.
Later,
K
Kevin,
I feel that Silvergate is considerably underfinanced (as regards any new tooling), so the only product to enter the market will be from existing tooling at the existing scale. I do not feel that Piko are going to extend their tooling beyond European prototype, as there is already a healthy supply of product from the American manufacturers. As the ex-MDC items are basically starter set inclusions then scale is really of little importance to those who will be purchasing the items.
I feel that ownership of tooling is actually important as it denotes a commitment to the industry. I really do not believe Dr.Wilfer purchased the tooling unless it was at such a bargain basement price that it was essentially a gift. An American company wanting to enter the largescale market would see the tooling as an entry point at minimal upfront cost into the market. Marklin has a ready supply of American standard gauge tooling (ex-Lehmann) available and will reintroduce the items when production has stabilised. A new manufacturer in the limited largescale marketplace would be foolhardy to invest the enormous finance required for a fleet of tooling for new products as there is just too much competition for limited sales potential. We are a niche market with a decaying consumer base and minimal newcomer attention.
Kevin Strong said:
I don't find the tooling ownership to be terribly material. It's nice to see them back in production. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Silvergate started to work with Piko to get stuff produced. Given their history with LGB, it's almost a foregone conclusion.What’s more important to me as a consumer is whether they’d to maintain the “fast and loose” scaling that was prevalent under the LGB banner, or if they will buckle down and become stronger competitors with Aristo and USA, sticking to one consistent scale (even if it’s not 100% accurate for the track gauge). No longer being confined by LGB’s policies on size and curve compatibility, I would hope to see them steer more towards becoming a strong competitor specifically in the US market.
From what I’ve seen so far, Piko seems to be where Aristo was when they first started out. They want their trains to be “visually compatible” with all the European LGB stuff that’s already on the market, but they want to do standard gauge prototypes. So, they’ve seemed to choose a compromise scale that allows them to do this. That gives me a bit of hope that maybe they’ve got a more scale-oriented mindset–even if they can’t label their boxes correctly.
Later,
K
Kevin - IMO a standard gauge 1/22.5 scale BR80 running on 45mm track would look utterly ridiculous. The prototype is 31.7 feet long for a start…that’s 17 inches in scale. It would totally dwarf anything beside it from the usual 1/22.5 meter gauge stocklist, let alone the ‘probably’ 1/32 scale ‘MDC’ hoppers…
Even at the ‘usual’ PIKO scale of 1/27th [or so], it would be 14.5" long, ignoring the non-scale couplers.
tac