I need to achieve a 30" drop in not much space.
I decided to build a storage yard in my barn and grossly miscalculated the height. I can’t/don’t want to lower the yard so now im stuck trying to figure out how to drop 30" in not a lot of space. I don’t have a site plan yet. I may sketch one out just to get some ideas.
I was thinking helix but the widest I can go is a 12’ diameter. Plus, I don’t want a hollow helix that I have to climb over/into to mow. I’ll post some pics and more thoughts, maybe some of y’all will have ideas.
Terry
If you’re tight on space, a Helix is probably your only option.
If the rest of your RR has scenery, you might think about building a fiberglass mountain with numerous tunnels for the Helix to wander in and out of.
Ralph
What about an elevator type arrangement? Maybe 6’ long–not enough to lower an entire train, but certain 4 or 5 cars at once depending on length. If you’ve got some room, you could make it two or three tracks wide, then combine them on the low end of things to assemble the train. That’d move all the more cars at once.
Later,
K
Hmmmmm … doing a helix is usually the last choice, both on the prototype and on garden railways. However as the Germans say: “In der Not frisst der Teufel Fliegen” (In a pinch the devil will eat flies) i.e. a helix after all, with a scheme for easy access.
Hmmmm … trackplan coming up.
Here the cold numbers in the drawing.
(http:///LayoutPlans/TB_Helix.jpg)
… One turn of the helix to get 12" from railhead to railhead results in a 3.2% grade, 2.5 turns required. Getting a 15" between railheads results in a 4% grade
(http:///LayoutPlans/TB_Helix2.jpg)
The track used: Aristo 60" radius. And how do you get in there? The length of a 30º section is 31.42" . Mount four of those sections as a tilt-up, the upper two tilt to the left the lower two tilt to the right. That gives you 60" to pass through, the engineering is straight forward and alignment of the track accurate. Tilting up in that sequence also protects your line since the tilted sections become (rather solid) stop features. This is how I would build it, with 2.5 turns, wide open and the grade, while not ideal, still manageable. Inclines, elevators and a number of other things have also been considered by the real railroads, common sense prevailed in most instances i.e. they extended the running length by whatever means, since they wanted to move trains, not diddle around with features that impede traffic flow. More than a century later that sounds like a pretty good approach. 
PS The green area is 12ft in diameter, now if one would use the same approach but use flex track … coming up.
Increasing the rad to 66" lowers the grade on the 12" climb to 2.9%; on the 15" climb to 3.6%.
(http:///LayoutPlans/TB_Helix3.jpg)
To add a bit, im running 1:20 equipment, my biggest loco the k27 needs a 10’ minimum diameter. When I get a spare second i’ll post a crude drawing.
Why not a switch back…ever thought of that ?..even on a curve…
HI Terry
Will the yard be just for storing your trains or a working yard that the RR will use to make up trains during operations?
Maybe you could do a switch back or 2 to gain your inches? Either that, a Helix or somehow find a way to send your track off to gain the required inches. By using a tunnel it won’t need to be pretty.
Todd
Yes Padre, that could be a possibility. Provided Terry’s restrictions only concern laying out a max curve and he has plenty of room for the tail tracks of a double switchback, double in order to have the engine at the same end as when it starts down the switchbacks.
Of course it is a similar PITA as doing elevators, hinged inclines and a few other schemes, a hindrance to traffic flow. But it would be perfect for a logging road where all the loads are on the downhill and severe grades are not a problem.
Okay, this is one of those wild donkey sort of ideas, but we seem to be brainstorming here. Probably would not work for locomotives - You would still have to use both of your “0-5-0s” there - or a carrier.
I have seen cable inclines used in a couple of “high rise” situations. I think the Sumpter Valley RR actually had one for a special circumstance. The state of Pennsylvania saw them used for both canal boats and railroad cars. A used deep sea fishing reel could serve as the winch. The heavy high-test line those reels use would look just about right for cable. Crank a set of cars down/crank a set of cars up. You may want to put a few pulleys or rollers between the ties to help guide the cable.
The vertical curves for the top and bottom would probably present the greatest challenge - sharp enough to get the incline going, but eased enough to let your longest car negotiate the vertical curve. Think about the hump in a hump yard. I remember the hump at Bellevue Yard in Ohio seemed fairly abrupt. Auto racks almost scratched their center sills going over it.
Anyway, another $0.02,
David Meashey
Assign a three truck shay to move a car or two from the storage to the mainline.
Here’s a terrible site plan. It is NOT to scale.
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/paintjockey/photobucket-4162-1340371587846.jpg)
I was thinking switch back, but this is supposed to be a mainline to another town so would really like it to be continuous plus I do want to use the yard for making up trains. Hence, why i really don’t wanna go with an elevator. With this site plan I’m starting to think of curving around away from the layout then curving back to make up some distance. I like the ideas so far, thanks for the help Terry
Put he helix inside the 20’ curve, bridge the mainline and then into the barn?
Here’s one idea, but not sure it will fit.
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/paintjockey/photobucket-4722-1340376115790.jpg)
Terrry
Bob, I didn’t do a good job with my drawing. The center has a junction and soon to be loco shops in it. I’m trying to model a sparse, spread out railroad so i’m keeping (trying) the rails apart and not (again tryinng) creating ‘spaghetti’ bowls.
Sorry if i seem negative to any ideas i’m really not i just did a poor job describing what i have going on and the vision i’m trying to keep.
Terry
Terry, When it comes to confined space with a step in the valley to be overcome there are some classic examples - a lot of them from Swiss railways who had a knack to overcome those obsticals and consequently were copied by various and sundry all over the globe. While I base our railway on the RhB, I certainly stayed away from some of their most remarkable track development between Muot and Preda, this despite the fact that both stations are part of our layoutFor very good reason: I’m too old to wear a hair shirt.
(http:///LayoutPlans/TB_Sample1.jpg)
Above the line between Muot and Preda. Three spiral tunnels two of which are stacked - but off-set - one above the other. 170m elevation gain in a linear distance (as the crow flies) of 3000m. It is a typical mainline op with very dense train frequency- strictly single track, grades on that section up to 3.5%. Built 1898 - 1903. Alternatives considered (apart from different alignment of the line): rack sections, cable sections, inclines, switch backs etc. etc. All of them rejected because they would have hindered traffic flow. Getting back to your problem the largest diameter and use an elongated helix (oval) to gain extra running distance and a lower grade.
Terry Burr said:
Here’s one idea, but not sure it will fit. [url](http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/paintjockey/photobucket-4722-1340376115790.jpg)
[/url] Terrry
Could you provide some dimensions to put in the planning software. Distance between the corner of the barn to the side door etc. etc… The actual elevation of the 20ft circle where the wye is to come off. Thanks!
I will, but i’m at work today. The drawing and dimensions are from memory from doing layouts yesterday.
Terry
Based on the provisional dimensions
(http:///LayoutPlans/TB_Loops1.jpg)
2.7% grade, 66" curves The running distance can get a bit longer depending on the position of the wye.