I am having trouble with a Phoenix sound system in a DCC ready Disneyland Railroad Forney. When the locomotive starts at slow speeds it lurches with each chuff and whistle until a high enough amount of power is applied to overcome it. The headlight also flickers in the same way. I am using a Bridgwerks magnum 200 for power and I have tried hooking the Phoenix system to the wires between the rear truck pickup and the locomotive circuit board as well as hooking it to the rear plug wires (for lighting cars). This particular wire set is where Phoenix suggested I hook their sound system and is where they hook all the sound systems they install on all LGB locomotives. Niether of these ideas worked. There is supposed to be a plug on the locomotive circuit board that LGB would hook in their sound but I don’t know which plug it is or if this would solve the problem. Does anyone know or have any ideas? I need to fix this problem so this Disneyland train can be run by kids at the April 26, Helena, Montana train show and the children,s home and safety fair events. Keep in mind this is a newer LGB Forney (set 72350). Please explain technical info. in easy to understand terms. I do understand some minor electrical (enough to wire, solder and other extreme basic stuff). A whole lot of children will enjoy running this train with the Disney characters and 8 cars if we can get the sound problem working in time for the events. Jerky start ups cause cars to uncouple or derail and looks rediculous. Phoenix is sending a plug for the locomotive sound board ( if we can find which plug it is) so we can try this last idea. They are also unsure how to fix this problem. If you know which plug is the sound plug or if you know if this would even fix the problem , let us know. Also if you can think of any other solution e mail me at; [email protected] or [email protected] or post it here. Thanks to this website and all of you. Kenneth Mathews c/o Imagination Station Kids on Track Model Railroad and Safety Program Helena, Montana TM 0409A
This reads like the Px is in a trailing car.
Is it?
If not, put it in one and use BB wheel sets with power pickup. Use at least 2 wheel sets. Fore and Aft. I did that to one of my Px and a Forney. Don’t forget to mount chuff magnets on one of the non-BB wheelset. And the other two reed switches are for bell and whistle. Simply glue them to the truck.
You can still put a small speaker in the Forney and use a two wire plug to connect them. If you don’t want to do that, put the speaker in the car as close to the Forney as possible. From a distance of a few feet, you won’t notice the difference.
This is the easiest way, bypassing all the LGB electronics.
Kenneth -
Does the loco run smoothly without the sound connected ?
John B. The sound unit is in the locomotive not a trailing car, reason being this is a Disneyland train with open air cars and passenger coaches and significant value to them as well. There are no box cars or such that would hide the unit and equip. well without disrupting the look of the train. That is a great idea, I just don’t think it would work with this train. And in answer to Jon Radder, yes the locomotive runs perfectly smooth with the sound off but still connected. I admit this is a tough problem to solve, not many people have had many ideas but a lot of good suggestions, just wish we had a miraculous solution. Ken ISKoT TM 0409A
Thanks Kenneth. I don’t have a solution, but it does sound like the sound system is robbing the loco motor of power when you first start up. This is pretty odd, because the sound board should not draw much current. Which Phoenix board?
Jon; the board is a 2K2 board but I wonder if the motor requires a lot of power and the sound system uses to much of that power causing fluctuations. I would have thought the battery would make up the difference but I guess not. You got me to! Ken, ISKoT TM 0309A
I had two Forney’s and both had electrical pickup problems after running for several hours. Check the brushes that make contact with the inside of the wheels. Get some Areo Car electrical contact lubrication and apply it to the brushes, just one small drop per wheel.
Also make sure the tire thread is clean on all wheels.
I found the engine draws more power when the electrical pickups get dirty. Had these engines on a power source with a 3 amp overload built in, keeping it clean it would not trip the over load.
Kenneth Mathews said:That was going to be my next question - if you have the battery installed. Your right, a 2K2 with battery should not draw an excessive enough amount of power to make the motor stutter.
Jon; the board is a 2K2 board but I wonder if the motor requires a lot of power and the sound system uses to much of that power causing fluctuations. I would have thought the battery would make up the difference but I guess not. You got me to! Ken, ISKoT TM 0309A
I’d check Dennis’ suggestions next. The power pick up may be marginal, not capable of both moving the engine and producing sound together at low voltages.
You can try using the trailing truck as a power source then.
Install two BB wheel sets with pick-up.
However, you need a source for the chuff reed. So you could try it with one wheel set.
(Using the 2k2 without the chuff reed is problematic as well. The unit will start to chuff before the loco moves. That’s why I always use a reed for “real time” chuff.)
Your other alternative is to gut the LGB Dcc stuff and hard wire the loco.
You will need a 5 volt regulator for the smoke and light.
There is a solution for just about anything. It depends how far you want to go.
DENNIS C; Thanks for your idea. I wrote down the name of the contact lubricant but were do you get it and how much is it? JOHN B; The BB wheel set idea is a good one. As far as chuff rate match to the locomotive, as soon as Phoenix gets it to me, I will be able to adjust the chuff rate and all the other adjustments with the computer interface unit as soon as this problem is solved, which we may be on the road to now. This brings me to JOHN R’s comment. I recently found out through Chuck, the tech. at Mitzell trains who has installed a lot of these sound systems and has troubleshooted a lot of problems that, through a process of elimination that the Phoenix board has an internal short because the fluctuation on low voltage start up affects all stationary lighted cars and engines on the track. All other connections on the board were disconected in this test and the locomotive has no running problems with the sound in the off position. We have decided to ship the board back to Phoenix with this info. and Chuck’s recomendation to them, since he is closely connected with them. I guess we will see what happens from here and if this is the actual problem. Thanks you guys, will keep you informed when I know more. Ken ISKoT TM 0409A
A bad board is a pretty reasonable conclusion. A normal one shouldn’t pull enough current to see any symptoms elsewhere. Phoenix is pretty good with warranty so you should be all set soon.
Here is the website:
http://www.aerocarlubricants.com/Trains/index.htm
Order: ACT-3753 Conducta Lube and Cleaner
I also use:
ACT-1111 NG Jel Gear Lubricant & ACT-Brushes Microbrushes 25 per pack for gears also use a little of the ACT-2222
ACT-2002 Motor Bearing Lubricant
ACT-2222 Heavy Duty Bearing Lube for the gears and axels.
Only lubricants used on my Shays.
Thanks Jon, I will let you know what we find out. Phoenix will get the board Friday and will do a quick turn around. Dennnis; thanks for the info. I will order all of these soon! Kenneth Mathews ISKoT TM 0409A