Large Scale Central

Narrow Gauge Pedistal Questions

General Discussion
#1

Hey friends,

I think I mentioned this a long time ago but the subject has surfaced again. I have the opportunity to acquire a piece of prototype history. I have a chance to get a pedestal from the narrow gauge coaches used by the Coeur d’Alene Railway and Navigation Company. But the problem is it is in Alaska. Shipping it maybe a real issue.

I have asked this of the man who has it and am waiting for an answer but I am impatient and was hoping to gain a little insight here. The main issue is shipping it. He recommended a Marine shipping company. Now they want to know the length, width, height, and weight.

What is the typical 1880’s narrow gauge truck pedestal dimensions and weight? Would their be a better way to ship such things?

#2

Devon,

Pedestals are not necessarily ‘narrow gauge’. Being as they are typically used in wood beam trucks, they are gauge independent. That said, to your question. Typically pedestals are cast iron. They do vary in dimensions dependent on the railroad or supplier casting them. For some typical dimensions, search for ‘Car Builders Cyclopedia’ and check the late 1800s versions, there will be pedestals with dimensions in there. Weights are usually not shown in those documents.

As for the shipping, the weight will most likely be above the ‘one man’ threshold, therefore a crate or skid of some nature will be required. And it would be good to make it fork truck friendly. Shipping companies use the L X W X H X weight to calculate loading for the delivery system. If going by boat, then it will also help in balancing the loading of the ship (not so much for the small item you are shipping, but it is standard practice to request the information). The other item you don’t mention is whether this is coming with or without journal box. This will seriously affect the weight…possibly double it.

I would recommend getting much more information from the current owner of the item before committing to acquiring this pedestal.

Good luck with this venture. Could be a great find…if it works out.

Bob C.

#3

Yes, possibly a good find, from a historical point of view, but better left near where it was used, in a museum or someplace like that, where restorations might take place on equipment that might need such a part.

If you do pay the price and have it shipped…what in hell are you going to do with it. Surely you aren’t planning on building a passenger car around that one piece of iron; on top of all the other, many, many projects you have indicated you are planning…!!

That part is not something you would keep in your den, as a conversation piece, while sitting with a good Whisky in hand.

Good luck.

Fred Mills

#4

Bob and Fred,

I am hoping to get much more information from the guy who has it as far as to their size and weight. But here is the back story a bit. These pedestals were stamped N.P. and arrived on the two narrow gauge coaches that we are about 98% sure are my coaches. Those coaches were purchased second hand by the CR&N. Why would they have N.P. pedestals? As Bob mentioned there is no reason they specifically have to be “narrow gauge” though I was told that many NG used a lighter pedestal but that certainly does not have to be the case. The CR&N may not have initially been a NP project but they had their hands in it for sure. Certainly they principle owners had deep NP connections. So if these cars came sans trucks for some reason, or needed to be repaired, it is not at all unlikely that NP peds would be used. All the circumstantial evidence is right that this ped is from my cars.

So why would I want it. Well very little exists in the way of identifiable relics from the CR&N. Anything people can physically put their hands on would be nice. The ped is cracked and in pieces but they are all there. It is merely for display. It could never be used for anything other than to make a mold from should someone ever think they need too (not me). I don’t plan on investing much into this project. If it gets to expensive I will pass. But if its doable it would be nice to bring it home. It certainly does not belong in a guys house in Alaska and apparently the White Pass has no interest in it.

The question then is where does it belong. Why not my den??? Its better than that guys den??? At least it is more than a novelty to me. If I do acquire it I just might make it a piece of my collection. People all over the place collect other RR tidbits; I see no moral dilemma here. But with that said my most likely intention would be to loan or outright donate it to the Wallace Northern Pacific Depot Museum the original home of the CR&N. In my opinion they are the only ones worthy of it. If it doesn’t go there then no other place would appreciate it for what it is. It would be a piece of junk to any of the others.

I would want it displayed and the lady at the NP museum is a friend and is interested in the CR&N history as part of her museums history. That would be the best place for it and would get appreciated. But she may not want it.

This is all very much in the air. I am pursuing it because it needs to be pursued but I will only take it so far.

Oh and Bob I don’t believe the journal is there but that is part of what I am waiting on. At one time he was supposed to send pictures but so far no go.

#5

Fred Mills said:

That part is not something you would keep in your den, as a conversation piece, while sitting with a good Whisky in hand.

Good luck.

Fred Mills

And why the devil not Fred!! All sorts of folks collect all sorts of stuff, why not Railroad artifacts. I could easily sit chatting with other like minded folk over what ever beverage floats our collective boat.

Keep us posted Devon, I would be interested in the outcome.

Bob C.

#6

Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:

Fred Mills said:

That part is not something you would keep in your den, as a conversation piece, while sitting with a good Whisky in hand.

Good luck.

Fred Mills

And why the devil not Fred!! All sorts of folks collect all sorts of stuff, why not Railroad artifacts. I could easily sit chatting with other like minded folk over what ever beverage floats our collective boat.

Keep us posted Devon, I would be interested in the outcome.

Bob C.

When you really think about it where would it possibly get more appreciated and talked about than in my den. In a museum it would be a hunk of cast iron. It would have a small placard stating it was a pedestal from a passenger car. People would briefly look at it with indifference. In my hands the story comes alive, I give it history, I give it significance. When people enter my den, it tells a story about the CR&N and conversations are struck.

Even things like photos and what not. I am always torn as to what should or should not be in a museum versus a private collection. For example, I went to a local museum and asked to see anything they had on my railroad. I was told they didn’t have anything. So I decided to to look through their digital catalog for information. I found a hand written letter from the president of the RR. I found a complete map of the entire line. They spent some time searching for the stuff and finally found it. I was showed the stuff and then it was rolled back up and stuck back into the dusty hole it came from. It will never be appreciated by the public. I even asked for them to do an intra-museum loan to the NP museum and they said no. This is not a unique story, all of this stuff is treasured so much that it is squirreled away to never be seen. So why not have it in the hands of some one that will enjoy it, cherish it, and understand its importance.

But the flip side of that is, if someone else had that attitude, then those of us searching for it would never be able to find it. So even squirreled away it is there for the public to enjoy. Its a tough call. If I knew I could get stuff displayed then I would have no trouble having it displayed. I would enjoy knowing others are enjoying it.

#7

Devon,

Do you really think Darcy wants that in HER house? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

#8

ok, since I have no clue what the heck you are talking about I am going to give my opinion: I have no clue what the heck you are talking about!. Sounds like something cool to have in the Man Cave of casa de Sinsley, or out on the railroad as something to look at around the layout. Beats the heck out of spikes or a random tie plate( my rust collection). Trucking it or shipboard like others said will be determined by size and weight. If itr is crated up where they can put lighter stuff on top of it, they will be happier. A picture of what you are dealing with would help, at least to me.

#9

The good news is that a passenger car pedestal is small enough to fit in the overhead compartment on an airplane. The bad news is that it would take the entire flight crew to lift it up there. Figure 12" - 15" on the width, probably 18" on the height, and likely 6" - 8" on the depth. In that day and age, cast iron. Wouldn’t want to speculate on a weight, but “not light” I think would be a fair description.

Definitely an interesting find. Shipping will be pricey, but maybe not as bad as you might think. Just don’t think “UPS” or “FedEx.” Look at the over-the-road freight carriers to see what they may charge. Check online for freight brokers. The only catch is that it may not be “door-to-door,” but “dock-to-dock,” in that you’ve got to get the pedestal to the freight dock to load onto the truck, and then you’ve to haul yourself down to the terminal on your end to pick it up. But–hey–it’s a railroad artifact. That’s how folks did things 100 years ago; they hauled themselves down to the train station to pick up their freight. You’d be re-living part of history with your part of history! :wink:

Later,

K

#10

Pete Lassen said:

ok, since I have no clue what the heck you are talking about I am going to give my opinion: I have no clue what the heck you are talking about!.

Images courtesy of Ozark Miniatures :

Devon, my guess is anywhere from 80 to 200# depending on the heft of it’s design. I’ve had luck with Forwardair If you can get someone to package and take to an airport. You pick up at yours. If there are three others there, yes, the locals need to build a replica car on them and start a museum around it. Otherwise this would probably look just fine in Devon’s livingroom inspiring conversation. Good luck Devon!

#11

Pete Lassen said:

ok, since I have no clue what the heck you are talking about I am going to give my opinion: I have no clue what the heck you are talking about!. Sounds like something cool to have in the Man Cave of casa de Sinsley, or out on the railroad as something to look at around the layout. Beats the heck out of spikes or a random tie plate( my rust collection). Trucking it or shipboard like others said will be determined by size and weight. If itr is crated up where they can put lighter stuff on top of it, they will be happier. A picture of what you are dealing with would help, at least to me.

This is what we are talking about

#12

Joe Zullo said:

Devon,

Do you really think Darcy wants that in HER house? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

I have one place in the house that is all mine (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)The shipper the guy recommend will door to door, door to dock, or dock to dock. The guy is very slow in responding so I am not sure at this point exactly what we are playing with. Most likely it will go door to dock. If it can get to Seattle I can get it home from there. I have to go there anyway for some research to follow up on some new leads.

As for the rest of it. the guy I am getting it from said that at least awhile back the whole truck is supposed to be partially buried in a mound of dirt and other stuff. That’s how he got this ped, it was exposed and destine to be scrapped or lost to time. The problem with these parts (whatever is left) is useless to the current owners. The cars are already rebuilt and in service on the White Pass and Yukon; coach #214 and #216. The trucks were cast off I assume because they opted for a more modern design so that it could remain in use. So these trucks were tossed. The current owner of the Ped just grabbed it because he could and he is a White Pass fan and part of their historical society (or was). Now to him its just a hunk of iron of no particular interest.

#13

Ask him if he has any D&RG brake wheels. I know someone who is looking for one. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)