Large Scale Central

MU-ing REVO II

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Ok, so I’ve updated the pc boards in my SD45s, added REVO II in both, 18.5v batteries, and I’m ready to go, right?

MU is easy, so it says in the destructions. Ummm, not so fast.

After a tutorial by Don Sweet, I get it sorted out. Thanks, Don, much more understandable than the Chinglish that comes with the REVO.

One of the locos starts at 2% of throttle earlier than the other. Is that enough of a difference to cause a problem? If it is problematic, is there a fix?

Is there a way to turn off the bell and horn in the trailing loco?

Thanks for your help.

#2

Yes, go to DCC ha ha! (honestly this IS simple in DCC)

My experience in matching loco speeds is that what seems obvious, running 2 locos 2 feet apart to see the speeds, is not how it really works under load, under load the faster loco will work harder than the slower one, the load slows BOTH locos down.

So, I’d start them 2 feet apart and see how they stay at various speeds. If there is not a radical speed difference I would not bother if I was you.

Now, starting up and having one start way before the other makes for not so nice operation. You can adjust the starting speed of one loco to match this. You could also put some diodes in the motor circuit to cut the voltage to the loco that starts sooner too.

On the horn and bell, I don’t think so, but I have not consisted the revo recently, I think it sends the bell and whistle/horn to all in a MU.

HTH

Greg

#3

Steve,

I set up the 2 engines like this: ( just example)

Loco #1 CAB 1

Loco #2 CAB 2

loco 1&2 CAB 3

Thus 1 & 2 can be run as single units (SU) and the sound turned on/off by the # 1 key.

When in the MU mode use the * button to switch control of the sound , and then #1 key for on and off.

What I do now is just use receivers with sound in one loco and the older receiver with no sound in the other.

Kevin

#4

in MU mode, what exactly does the asterisk key do?

Greg

#5

What I found, playing with the sound, is that the loco that was entered first, as the lead engine, will have the bell and horn, and both have the engine. The trailing engine does not sound there bell, or horn.

I have yet to test what happens when I reverse the consist.

#6

I’m liking this REVO II more and more.

Reasonable cost.

Reasonable sound.

Good range.

The bell and horn stay with the lead locomotive, no matter which direction.

Some things I’d like to see…

Bell changed to latching, stays on until turned off.

Horn changed to give one blast per button push, so it could actually be used, rather than blowing the crossing signal, only.

Increase the polyphonics, so the horn can be used while the bell is clanging.

Navin, are you listening?

#7

Steve,

If you press the asterisk button you will see on the screen in the upper left (just to the right of the antenna symbol) you

will see that change from MU1 to MU2. You should be able to select sound functions in the engine of you choice.

Kevin

#8

Thanks Kevin, that is what it seemed. I had a lot of conversations with Lewis when the Revolution was being developed, and one thing that had to be changed in the early units was the mu capability.

Never played with it, but used DCC as an example.

Initially, there was no such thing as cabs, you used the loco id directly, which made a mess of mu’ing, you actually needed to program all locos to the same id. That changed early on, and the concept of a cab, which could encompass multiple loco id’s was created.

Steve: I thought you could specify the bell button as latching, and then it would do what you want.

Look here: http://www.trainelectronics.com/ART5700TrainEngineerRevolution/RevoWithSound/index.htm

and see if the method for setting latching of the #1 button can be applied to your bell button, #2 (and let us know, please)

Greg

#9

Hmmm… I thought I was doing well to get as far as I did! (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#10

You are!

I think you can make any button latching on the transmitter, but let us know, very weird that the default settings don’t come with #1 and #2 latched. I’ll have to bug JK about that.

Greg

#11

Button 1 is default latched.

I was able to latch button 2 (bell) to get continuous clanging.

I was not able to get a single blast of the horn. Default of button 3 is momentary, and one press of the button yields 4 blasts of the horn that is almost a crossing signal. The short blast could be shorter. Latching the horn makes it go on forever, as one would surmise.

In both the bell and horn, the latching was not disengaged without a second push of the button, after which the software demanded the sound complete its cycle, bell 8 dings, horn, 4 blasts. I can live with that.

Perhaps, on the next update, the horn can be changed to one blast per button push, with an allowance for duration of button push.

I was able to change which locomotive had the bell and horn with the * button, thanks, Kevin. I suspect that would also work with 3 or more locos in the consist, I would just have to cycle through the locos to get the right one.

Thanks to Dave for posting the article, and to Gregg for linking it here.

#12

The horn/whistle “goof” has been a problem since day one… instead of direct, momentary control of the horn/whistle, all it does is initiate a botched grade crossing sequence, which has gone through a few variations.

Never want the horn/whistle on latched anyway. (pushing once to get on, and pushing again to get off is the definition of latched)

I have not documented if there is even one version that is a correct sequence, since it’s so stupid to force the only control to be a sequence. Been asking for this change for a while, I guess need to ask again to the “current” company.

Anyway, you are another step forwards with your latched bell, now working right.

Greg

#13

Steve, Greg,

Have to agree about the horn. I would rather have direct access to the horn, vice a preprogramed song.

Good discussion…

Kevin

#14

Now, if Navin and company could work on polyphonics. When either the bell or horn is sounded, the diesel sound decreases by almost half. When both are sounded, simultaneously, the diesel sound diminishes even more.

Speaking of the diesel sound, there is no difference in the sound between idle and notch 8. I don’t have a steam card, so I can’t address chuff changes as speed increases. This is a small matter, I’ve had to point it out to several folks during demos. It would probably cost too much to fix.

Over all, I think the REVO II is an outstanding value. If the company could fix the horn, and polyphonics, it would give the sound cards a run for their money. I find no fault in the electronic speed control (ESC). It does what it is supposed to do.

Installation is simple. I don’t use the aux or smoke boards, but imagine they would be too. If I can do it, anyone can. (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#15

As I’ve told many developers of “new” systems, the motor control is simple, sound stuff can take huge amounts of time to get right, not to mention just getting good recordings in the first place.

I would think the sound files could be tweaked, but there also might be limitations in the audio amp that is adding to the issue.

Now you are hearing the differences between middle of the road sound systems and things like my QSI that blows the doors off everything else. It’s like a good home stereo, there’s a danger, the more you listen, the more you hear the nuances.

Greg

#16

I understand the nuance of sound, I’m a musician. I find it difficult to go to orchestral concerts, because I can hear every flub and clam. I cannot tolerate listening to someone singing our national anthem. I hear when the artist misses the high note by a few cycles per second. I can tell the difference between A 440, and 443. I don’t have perfect pitch, being able to nail the tone without lead in, but i do have perfect relative pitch, knowing when the singer missed that note by just a smidge. Or when I did. It’s a curse.

I’m sure that I would appreciate the upper level sound cards. I’ve used 2K2 in some of my locos. That said, I firmly believe that the REVO II is the best bang for the buck.

#17

It does enjoy a unique niche, and there’s really nothing else in that niche in my opinion.

#18

Glad you are happy with your Revo system Steve. I’m still in ‘choosing the next path’ mode and deadrail DCC is pretty attractive.

Greg Elmassian said:

Now you are hearing the differences between middle of the road sound systems and things like my QSI that blows the doors off everything else. It’s like a good home stereo, there’s a danger, the more you listen, the more you hear the nuances.

Greg

As I once again begin to look at DCC (but deadrail this time) sound is the #1 attraction. I have been a Phoenix users since day 1 in large scale. Started with Big Sound 97, then a 2K2 and more recently P5 and P8. I use big speakers in enclosed baffles and love the sound quality. In another life I owned a pro-audio shop so I know good sound from crappy sound.

What has me excited about DCC sound is the tight integration between actual motion and sound, especially in diesels. Phoenix is OK in this regard, but the DCC systems I have heard are much better. I assume the decoder’s ability to read back emf has a lot to do with this accuracy.

So for those who have discriminating taste and experience, please rate a few of the available sound decoders. So QSI rates up there, how about Sondtraxx?

The system I am currently testing could use HO decoders for sound and lights while using a separate ESC for motor control. I assume, that due to size. HO decoders can’t have as strong a power amp section as a Large Scale decoder - is that true? Phoenix systems are generally 3-6 watts into 8 ohms depending on the board. How about multiple speakers; is a 4 ohm load acceptable or is higher impedance speakers and/or series wiring needed?

I’m sure I could get a lot of these answers from the manufacturers, but i would like to narrow down what I am looking at before I dive deep into specs.

#19

Can someone explain to me the difference between rc/dcc, like Airwire, and “deadrail,” in terms this luddite can understand?

#20

Steve Featherkile said:

Can someone explain to me the difference between rc/dcc, like Airwire, and “deadrail,” in terms this luddite can understand?

As far as I know, “deadrail” = battery power. The original DCC systems used constant track voltage, and the DCC chip managed loco speed, etc. Hence, if you use battery instead of track power, your rails can be “dead”.