Anyone know if marine grade waterproof plywood has ever been used as a sub-roadbed under track in an outdoor setting? Just a crazy idea that crossed my mind.
Vic,
Marine grade plywood I don’t believe is waterproof. I have used it on boat projects and it is wood. It uses water proof glue but it is still wood. It rots. It does not delaminate as easily as regular plywood when wet but it rots.
I think there are treated plywood intended to resist rot. These would be a better choice and probably would give one or two seasons of service. Plywood works well for raised tracks.
For out doors I lay my track directly on gravel… Crushed stone.
I have used pressure treated boards for a road bed which works pretty well with sections of wood being about 2 feet long. The track easy fastened to the boards. It worked pretty well but not better than just laying the track right on the road bed. The new pressure treated wood only last 4-8 years on the ground here in Maine.
I used 2 x 6 cedar with good luck,it was outside for 18 years. 2 x 6 treat will work but will cup.
Do not use any 1x 6’s of any kind.
Don
2x6 ceder? How much does that cost?
There is a guy on facebook that builds RR’s for people and I think he uses redwood for his base.
I have used pressure treated 2x4’s above ground screwed together to form a “T” and they are holding up very well but on the ground I have one 8’ piece that is now having some problems after 7 years of ground contact.
I wouldn’t use any type of plywood or backer board for tiles.
I wonder how plastic decking material would hold up or that plastic wood like Azek but boy would it be expensive.
Depends on where you live I guess. Dimensional cedar in my neck of the woods isn’t a whole lot more money than fir and larch dimensional. But we also have Western Red Cedar everywhere, one of our more common trees.
I used Trex to build the cribbing for my Bridge. Its screwed together with stainless steel, square drive, flat head screws. I ripped Trex railing balusters down to something close to scale.
The cribbing has outlived the first bridge, and will likely outlive the current bridge.
5 or 6 years ago I used redwood benderboard for landscaping which suffered very little decay. Everything above ground remained intact. The stakes, also redwood, saw the most damage underground, but still held fast.
So I am using redwood lath and stakes for stringers and pvc pipe into the ground which should be impervious to decay or insects.
I am in southern CA also and the recent rain has had no effect on roadbed or my handlaid redwood ties, cut from the same redwood lathe, btw.
And an 8ft length of lath is 97 cents.
Of course this method is a structure that you must build, as opposed to just laying something on the ground.
Here is a close up view. Pvc into the ground, redwood stake into pvc, lath attached to stake. Rinse, repeat.
I have a loop at the bottom of my layout that is four to six feet above ground. In 2005, I bought treated posts for support and marine plywood for the deck and track and my next door neighbour with my help put it up. The deck was double marine plywood, heavily repainted. I live in the southwest part of BC and it is a wet marine climate. The posts still exist without issues, the plywood started to rot after 8 years, with one section replaced. Within another two years, the entire deck rotted through both layers of plywood. Two friends insisted that I replace it with sheets of dibond-an aluminum composite panel, cut to shape and levelled on the posts. They built their elevated live steam layouts with it. I was a gopher for them over the next few months as they were available to replace the deck. Dibond is not cheap but will last longer than I will!
The reason I have for asking is that I still want to build a small layout in the back corner of my yard, I have had this layout in mind for a few years now, but I cannot use the more standard spline methods because I will be using the stack of R1 curves I already have on hand. R1s are extremely tight to try and bend even thin redwood into form. I have considered doing that but then I wondered if I cut marine plywood to into 2-1/2" wide shapes that the track could be screwed down to, I could add posts under to hold the track in the ground and build up stone work under the ply and build up the rest of the layout around the trackwork, or a smaller version of Ray Dunakin’s rockpile stonework, I figure most of the layout will be elevated on stonework or sitting on an elevated gravel bed, so drainage should be pretty good all around and the ply should stay fairly dry. I realize eventually it may go bye bye but I’m thinking if I can get the bloody layout built, I could also eventually take up ply sections as they go bad and fill the underside cavity with concrete and reattach the track with wire or screws. Yeah its a nutty idea. but then I dont exactly have a normal layout in mind now do I?
Here is a PDF link to the track plan:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Darj%20Project-Outdoor%20Layout%20%203-12-16.pdf
Vic,
If you are in the dry (and LA is usually drier than the Right coast,) the ply might last longer.
But can I suggest making your own plastic ply ? Use the spline roadbed techniques, with thinner laths of plastic. I believe HD sells thin stuff to make/repair outdoor lattice fences. Use more of it, maybe 4 - 6 pieces wide. It will bend down to 2’ radius, I bet.
Vic Smith said:
Anyone know if marine grade waterproof plywood has ever been used as a sub-roadbed under track in an outdoor setting? Just a crazy idea that crossed my mind.
Yes it has been.
I remember in GR about 10 yrs ago a fellow did this for his entire modern day mainline. However you already answered one of the keys in your last post. The trick is to keep it off the ground even just a little. Gary Buchanan has a piece of PT (I believe) outside for over 10yrs that had sleepers screwed to it looked incredibly good after 10yrs in the Ohio climate.
I see…4 foot radius is tough.
You are right. You will never bend the redwood that tight. I broke a few trying to get a six foot diameter. I finally coerced it into an asymmetric 6-7 footer. Luckily my main line loops are much larger.
Walmart for less than $20 a roll;
Glue or screw 3 or so layers together on the curve and then use those as you ‘boards’…
.
Enough layers with spacers should have the strength, other wise that’s some expensive cookie cutting with the ply. With 3 thick coats of paint.
My suggestion this or something similar…
John
Maybe you could use flexible grey electrical pipe and make a spline using that?
You could put 3 pieces together side by side, bend it then screw it to a PVC 1x3 block then use pvc pipes driven into the ground as stakes so it would keep its form.
Just an idea.
Todd Haskins said:
Maybe you could use flexible grey electrical pipe and make a spline using that?
You could put 3 pieces together side by side, bend it then screw it to a PVC 1x3 block then use pvc pipes driven into the ground as stakes so it would keep its form.
Just an idea.
Todd,
It’s a fine idea - the entire RGSEast layout was three pipes in a triangle glued and tied together. Not sure it will get down to 2’ and still hold the load. The virtue of the splines is that they have vertical/load-bearing strength.
I bet that white PVC 1x3 stuff would bend that much and if needed a heat gun might help it.
David Russell said:
Vic Smith said:
Anyone know if marine grade waterproof plywood has ever been used as a sub-roadbed under track in an outdoor setting? Just a crazy idea that crossed my mind.
Yes it has been.
I remember in GR about 10 yrs ago a fellow did this for his entire modern day mainline. However you already answered one of the keys in your last post. The trick is to keep it off the ground even just a little. Gary Buchanan has a piece of PT (I believe) outside for over 10yrs that had sleepers screwed to it looked incredibly good after 10yrs in the Ohio climate.
EDIT: Cause I read it twice and I should have said “he used this for” instead of “he did this for” his entire mainline. Also noted I should have said…“had” instead of “has” a piece as it’s past tense and now gone and replaced with a fresh Peace!