It seemed to me that the question of track-bashing had been answered.
However as the OP went further I felt it was ok to follow.
I opined on the appropriateness of radii switches with doing it the way railroads did. Well such was the intention. Excuse if I failed to ‘splain’ it goodlynuf.
Be Blessed.
John
When I built my layout in Texas 15 years ago I used some LGB but mostly Aristo Wide Radius turnouts. After retiring we relocated to Tennessee and am hoping to rebuild and enlarge my layout here. I will be making both a left and right hand turnout jig to space my ties and since I use battery power instead of track power I plan to make my own frogs using auto body bondo that will be shaped using my dremel tool. I purchased 60 feet of code 250 aluminum rail from Sunset Valley and plan to cut my own ties from cedar wood or maybe HDPE plastic stock.
Ron, my first large scale switch I used bondo for the frog. It started breaking apart in a year or two. When I rebuilt it, I used JB Quick, and it lasted over 5 years. The frog is still good, even though I took the switch out of service. I made it a bit too sharp for some of my eqipment.
John, the word bifurcation has no negative connotation, and I expressed no pain in it happening.
I just wanted to indicate I was following one of the 2 topics it had, i.e. still answering things the OP had asked.
I also understand that the OP had (unintentionally at first) added to the questions/topics the (very strange) “rules” a local club had on members.
So, no negative comment on anything you posted, bifurcation is OK!
Greg
Jim,
I will throw in my .02 but I am not sure its worth that much. I am building my first turnout and I am learning a few things. Directly to your question the only advantage I can see to your proposed method would be that by using pre-made track you would have pre-bent track. As mentioned the ties would be a hindrance, not even sure how you make that work. If your only building one then this maybe the way to go. Otherwise the investment in a single rail bender and new rail stock I would think would be better cost wise.
Now turnout design. Listen to these guys when they are telling you about the benefits of prototype verses toy type turnouts. First a definition or explanation in case you have no idea what they are talking about. A prototype turnout, on the curved diverging track, only curves to the frog. At the frog it then exits the turnout in a straight tangent line. This is a scientific formula that I will let others explain. A toy turnout is curved throughout. I am building a toy turnout for the indoor because of tight turns. But there are inherent problems with turning a curve through the frog. These have to be overcome with compromises. If you can build prototypical turnouts then do so.
Now that I have seen the problems I can say you will likely be happier if you do.
Devon Sinsley said:
Jim,
. . .
Now turnout design. Listen to these guys when they are telling you about the benefits of prototype verses toy type turnouts. First a definition or explanation in case you have no idea what they are talking about. A prototype turnout, on the curved diverging track, only curves to the frog. At the frog it then exits the turnout in a straight tangent line. This is a scientific formula that I will let others explain. A toy turnout is curved throughout… . .
Devon,
If I may offer a tiny correction re: “curves to the frog” and “exits straight”. I suppose the latter is technically accurate, but implies the curve doesn’t start again for a while?
What is actually required is that the curved rails are straight through the frog area - a few feet before and after they are straight until they are through the frog. You can see why - easier on the wheels if they are coping with check rails and frogs in a straight line.
Thanks for clarifying Pete. That is why I deferred to others. I knew for sure that I wasn’t sure. And I definitely see why it needs to be straight “through” the frog. I am fighting that now.
Devon, you do know that physics usually wins. Right?
Science laws and stinking badges … who needs 'em?
Devon now is the time to establish back to back wheel standards for your guard rails. With a curved amphibian you’ll need the guidance on the other side…
John
Let’s not hijack this thread to hash out my issues. I appreciate the help as always but we can take it to my thread.
Let’s not hijack this thread to hash out my issues. I appreciate the help as always but we can take it to my thread.
Devon Sinsley said:
Let’s not hijack this thread to hash out my issues.
Why not?
Wow it is totally amazing, I should have paid more attention to what I posted in the beginning, however like I mentioned I use my cell phone due to having computer issues. As soon as a member pointed out the long posting, I immediately checked it out and edited and deleted the other part. I question was a very simple one. Has anyone used sectionial track sections and use those rails as stock rails instead of bending, Gentlemen I made a #6 switch 2 years which works very well
These are photos of the turnout I made from flat aluminum rods, I had to cut the rods about every inch and weld a bar on the bottom creating a t-shape rail to mount onto the ties.
Devon Sinsley said:
Let’s not hijack this thread to hash out my issues. I appreciate the help as always but we can take it to my thread.
One of your issues is double-posting (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)
Jim Weingart said:
Wow it is totally amazing, I should have paid more attention to what I posted in the beginning, however like I mentioned I use my cell phone due to having computer issues. As soon as a member pointed out the long posting, I immediately checked it out and edited and deleted the other part. I question was a very simple one. Has anyone used sectionial track sections and use those rails as stock rails instead of bending, Gentlemen I made a #6 switch 2 years which works very well
Jim,
If you are talking about using the rails from sectional track, but not the tie strips, then go ahead. You have to get your rails from somewhere.
I would point out that one benefit of making your own switches is that you do not have to put the track joints where sectional track has them. I tend to use a long rail as stock rail and let it continue for a foot or more past the switch and before the switch. Much smoother operation and more prototypical.
Here’s a section of a crossover with a pre-built switch (bottom) laid out on my dining table. You can see the extra long stock rails.
Pete Thornton said:
Devon Sinsley said:
Let’s not hijack this thread to hash out my issues. I appreciate the help as always but we can take it to my thread.One of your issues is double-posting (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)
And I just figured out why. It does it when I post from my phone
Jim I cant see ow your idea wont work, worst case you will just have to tweak the rails some. Im trying a different approach with my switches. I was hoping to start over the winter and see how it would work. My plan is to make a stub switch but making it the exact size as my Aristo wide rad switches. Why am I doing it this way because I want to be able to just take out the Aristo switches and put hand laid ones in its place. I dont want to redo parts of the layout to get longer switches to fit plus I dont understand all the math work involvedin making switches. Ill just use the Arsito as my template. I wish I had a paper template of a left and right Aristo switches.
Shawn,
As one who is working on my first stub switch; well my first switch period, can I offer a suggestion. Unless you have your heart set on working up a whole switch, why not modify the Aristo switch? From where the point rails are hinged (or begin to flex) through the frog and out both diverging tracks would be the same geometry. Seems to me if you tighten the radius of the curved tracks just enough that the foot of the curved rails rests on the foot of the straight rails that would be great. Of course you would have to replace the movable point rails with fixed rail.then where the different track legs touch at the feet you cut them flush there and build in your stub rails. Now to make it fit in the same place your stub rails are going to have to be short. and likely they are not going to “bend” very well. Might have to hinge them like I did.
or somthing like that. I know someone here uses modified rail joiners. I think it can be done. I am not positive of this but it seems stub switches need to be longer to accommodate the bending of the stub rail. point rails are what I call internal to the switch where as stub rails are external if that makes sense. Put another way the switch actuator bar thing is attached to the movable rails at their farthest point from the frog on a standard switch. Whereas on a stub the bar is located at the point closest to the frog meaning all of the movable rail then extends further from the frog instead of closer to it. The points are part of the diverging tracks where in a stub these are fixed and require more rail farther away to move and select which diverging line to take. I could be wrong this is my uneducated understanding. This might complicate making the stub fit in the same spot as the regular switch without making the compromise of short hinged stub rails as I have done. My switch over all is 12" long and I was only able to have 2 1/2" stub rails.
Anyway thats my .02
After thinking on this a second you could and maybe should cut the rails even farther back. Say about where this red line is. After posting my first response I played with my stub (shut up rooster) and realized that the rails would actually line up better if the gap was a bit wider than how I did it. Line up the stub rails so that when they are straight they are in line with the straight rail and then when pushed over they would seemingly match up better with the curved section. This would also allow for a much longer stub rail. Or in my case a much shorter overall switch. I will play with mine and see what this does. So as to not take up this thread I will post the findings on my stub rail build thread.
