At least your honest
The SJR&P is a DCC wired layout. Most all of the active electronics is inside the house or the train shed.
The layout is wired like an indoor HO layout but with larger gauge wire.
We use 8 Gauge for the long distance runs from the power stations to junction boxes on the layout. 10 gauge bus wire under the track and 12 gauge feeders. All is normal stranded wire. We solder the joints and coat the solder joints with silicone. Some of this has been outside since the mid 80s.
The network is wired the same way use 12 gauge for the power and normal lamp cord for the signal.
For our future signal and phone wires we use buried cable cat 5 wire.
Hope this helps.
Stan
Typically good engineering. Figure out what will work, then double it. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Well as usual I did things a little different. Of course I was on raised bench work and all wiring was stapled in place under the tabletops out of sight.
I used 14-3 house wire, two leads and a ground, solid wire not stranded. Of course the ground wire is of no use but the Romex is inexpensive and comes in (up to) 250 foot rolls. After the buss wire was stapled under the bench work, where ever I wanted to put a lighted building i just skinned open the wire soldered on some bell or thermostat wire to lead up to the building. The solder joints were covered with liquid electrical tape to seal and a small plug was placed in line so the buildings were easily removable.
The buss wire was connected to a variable dc connection (train transformer) so I could control the amount of brightness I wanted in the various stages of the evening/night. I use all 14 volt bulbs and connect some of them is series for dimmer illumination depending on need.
Some will think this system is a little crude and probably won’t work, but all I can say is on the old Shasta Pacific the buss wire was almost 300 feet long and was in service for almost 10 years with no issues what so ever.
Sealing all your wire connections with silicon so water won’t get to them? Really?? do you seal your rail with silicon as well so water won’t short it out??
Just my experience, it worked the last time so I am going to do it the same way again.
Rick
The solder joints were covered with liquid electrical tape to seal and a small plug was placed in line so the buildings were easily removable.
Sealing all your wire connections with silicon so water won’t get to them? Really?? do you seal your rail with silicon as well so water won’t short it out??
You lost me there. You seal your connections, we sealed ours. Its just the choice of sealant is different.
For things I may take apart, I use the silicon filled “wire nuts” sold for the landscaping wire.
For thing that carry a lot of current and need a better connection I use ScotchLok 3570G connector sealing packs:
http://www.paigewire.com/specs/3M3570g.htm
Thanks all. I think I have enough to go on. Since this will all be just for LED building lighting I won’t need anything more than the landscaping wire and associated connecters and feeders. Although I have a bunch of 14-2 direct bury left over from another project if I have enough I might use that.
I have essentially no weather protection where the wire connections are made under the buildings on the layout.
However I do cover all of the lighted buildings with inverted plastic bins when rain is coming. So in a way I’m protecting the building and the wires underneath as well.
During the winter when all the buildings are brought inside, I simply place rocks over the exposed wire connections. Has worked fine for over 15 years now. Little to no corrosion. But I have a feeling we are dryer then most parts of the country.
Below is a brief summary of how I wired for the buildings:
I buried Malibu (or similar brand) 14 gauge outdoor landscape lighting wire under the buildings. Under each building this wire is spliced together to form an exposed wire connection that protrudes slightly above ground. At these connections I connect the building lights.
For building lights I use a wedge base socket, like these:
I solder alligator clips to the ends of the wedge base socket wires.
The alligator clips then connect to the spliced bare wire connections under the buildings. Making sure the wires are far enough apart so they do not touch, otherwise they’ll short.
For power, I use an Intermatic 600 Watt transformer. I really like the built in digital timer. Not a fan of photocell timers. I only light the buildings for about an hour every night or longer if we are doing night train running. We had to get this heavy duty transformer due to all the bulbs and wattage requirements of the layout. Practically every building is lit on the layout.
One thing I forgot to mention, this transformer…and most like it…supplies AC output. So if you plan to power any DC accessories with it be warned. I have a fire pit and burn barrel that are both 3 volt DC. To get them working with this transformer, I used a bridge rectifier to convert to DC and a 3 volt DC voltage regulator to drop the 12 volts. These components are all hidden in the nearest building…happens to be a hobo shack.
For lights, I use 4 - 18 watt bulbs. Most being 4 or 7 watt. I prefer bulbs over LEDs for interior lights. LEDs are better for headlights and signals, but still not great for 360 degree lighting. And they just don’t have the same intensity as the mini 4 - 18 watt outdoor bulbs…yet. The bulbs we use look like this:
Everything was designed to be super easy to remove the buildings from the layout. Due to winter snow weight I cannot leave them out year round. That’s why I use alligator clips as connectors. Otherwise I would have made more permanent connections with water proof wire connectors.
Below is a pic of the Malibu wire being installed. I had to upgrade to thicker wire as the current draw and length of wire from transformer was not working out with the first wire I installed. That was some spare phone wire I had. Probably only 20 gauge. Big mistake to go cheap. You need big heavy duty wire if you have long wire distances from the transformer and lots of bulbs to power.
And some pics of the lighted buildings:
This billboard uses typical small 12 volt bulbs. They work fine with the 12 volt AC coming from the Intermatic transformer:
Some simple math for lights.
The Malibu light sets I bought had 7 watt bulbs, and 10 lights. That is 70 watts divided by 12.6 volts (That is what most transformers put out as these are made from the old tube filament days and lead acid batteries put out 12.6 volts).
So, we are at 5 amps with 14 guage wire. I ran my lights in a loop from the power source and noticed the lights were dimmer at the end of the run than the beginning, so I then tied the end of the loop back to the power source and alas my lights were brighter as I was now feeding both ends of the wire thus cutting my power losses.
This would not be a problem with leds as 10 leds would not even be the load of 1 7 watt bulb. And if you used the CL2 current limiter on each led, you may never see a change even with bell wire over 100 feet.
Matt,
Thanks for chiming in. I hadn’t even considered the LED not being a good light for buildings. The only building I made with lights was last years build challenge and used LEDs but it took six and I used them in fixtures and they are very directional by intention. For lighting them up nice and bright like your doing so light comes though each window with intensity I can see where LED is not the best plan. I will have to rethink this a bit but for the most part what oyu suggest is not much different in materials just in application. I like where you took this.
Dan Pierce said:
Some simple math for lights.
The Malibu light sets I bought had 7 watt bulbs, and 10 lights. That is 70 watts divided by 12.6 volts (That is what most transformers put out as these are made from the old tube filament days and lead acid batteries put out 12.6 volts).
So, we are at 5 amps with 14 guage wire. I ran my lights in a loop from the power source and noticed the lights were dimmer at the end of the run than the beginning, so I then tied the end of the loop back to the power source and alas my lights were brighter as I was now feeding both ends of the wire thus cutting my power losses.
This would not be a problem with leds as 10 leds would not even be the load of 1 7 watt bulb. And if you used the CL2 current limiter on each led, you may never see a change even with bell wire over 100 feet.
Dan I am a bit confused. I am no electrical whiz but what your saying does not make sense to me. Are you saying that you run out of your transformer with a wire out into a loop and then comes back and attaches back onto itself? then feeders are taken off of that loop. I didn’t think you could run electricity in a loop. In every application I have ever seen it goes out on a hot (AC) or Positive (DC) and at the end is terminated in some form of output that then completes the circuit to the neutral (AC) or negative (DC). It seems odd to me that the Hot/Pos can loop back onto itself.
How about these LED panels for buildings ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281667478397?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Install them to bounce light off of the ceiling it makes a diffused light but still very bright.
Bill
http://www.largescalecentral.com/filesharing/file/view/49/ledpanels-jpg
Devon, you can loop power wires as long as you observe polarity. Positive connects to positive, and negative connects to negative, or, if AC, hot connects to hot and neutral connects to neutral. Its like an oval of DC powered track. The ends of the track are connected, but polarity is observed, so no short circuits occur.
They also make LEDs that are not as tightly focused, they have a slightly concave end instead of the typical LED lens end. Dave Bodner also drilled into the lens of his LEDs to make them more diffuse. I am sure its on one of his how to pages.
Bill Z said:
How about these LED panels for buildings ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281667478397?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Install them to bounce light off of the ceiling it makes a diffused light but still very bright.
Bill
http://www.largescalecentral.com/filesharing/file/view/49/ledpanels-jpg
Have you actually installed them and have them working. Thats a pretty neat LED panel
David Maynard said:
Its like an oval of DC powered track. The ends of the track are connected, but polarity is observed, so no short circuits occur.
Makes perfect sense.
On Looping
Looping helps a lot if you can do it. Just be sure to get the polarity right.
Unfortunately my setup didn’t really allow for a loop, or even doubling up the run in the same general location. I also added this wiring after the track was in. Big mistake in that department.
Our ground is tough enough to dig in for one wire run let alone a return (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
On LEDs
They are definitely getting better year by year. I have many for indoor house use. Love that I don’t have to change out bulbs in hard to reach places. They even have candelabra style LEDs now.
However, at least to my eye, the currently available mini “bulb” LEDs intended to be direct replacements to the landscaping bulbs I’m currently using are just not as powerful/bright. Maybe they will be in the future.
Looping will be very easy for me. So would having “zones” of looped wire. Would it be of special benefit if I can break it down into zones of power, say three individual loops? The way the layout is designed It would be easier to run three separate runs instead of one long one. Seems to me it would be preferable, just like in a house, to have multiple circuits. And it would actually be easier to do since I basically will only have three distinct areas where buildings will be.
Are the Malibu lights AC or DC? I am seeing now where AC would be better with Matt’s set up. That brings up another question do LEDs care if they are supplied with AC or DC current? I have always used them DC but I know there are AC applications such as in my telemetry system at work. AC would give you more options for lighting such as say Christmas lights.
Malibu lights are incandescent lights. They can be run off AC or DC. The Malibu power supplies, supply AC.
LEDs are a DC, polarity dependent, devices. They can be run off AC, but they don’t tend to be very happy, and even though they are diodes (one way gates for electricity) they don’t like to be reversed biased. Most LED lighting applications have some kind of circuit board in them to rectify AC into DC and regulate the current. Most, but not all. The LED Christmas light string that I have, doesn’t have any regulation or current limiting that I can see. Maybe that’s why so many people report that they burn out rather quickly.
David is spot on.
LEDs are DC.
The “bulb like” LEDs have circuitry built into the housing so they can plug/screw into AC feeds and run on the DC they like as well as voltage regulation so they don’t go poof.
If you are using LEDs without this built in circuity, then you MUST be aware of your power (AC or DC) and voltage. I know all about this from the HO layout. All my signals on this layout are LEDs. And they required some extra wiring care to ensure nothing went poof. I use small power supplies, like these for my HO lighting:
Devon
I ordered those LED panels for my 2 stall engine house.
It is still under construction, but I will take some pics
and post them
Bill