Large Scale Central

LONG - with apologies, and a crie de couer as well

Dennis Brown of the Chatham Kent GRS in the SW of Ontario posted this note on another forum.

'The Chatham Kent Garden Railway Society is located in southwestern Ontario and has a membership that extends from Windsor to London, Ont. The club has a free online newsletter located at www.swogscale.com. Article ideas are contributed by members. There are some garden railroaders located in this corner of Ontario but this is the first time that a semi-formal club has been established.

www.swogscale.com

In response to his introductory post live-steaming, I sent him THIS - ‘Counterpoint’ that he has been kind enuff to publish in the pages of the website.

BTW - Anybody who has pix of live-steam operations - please send them to Dennis for inclusion in the website pages…TIA.

Here’s MY take on starting up - of necessity a VERY cut-short article…

'Many people in our great hobby have taken the step further, or even backwards [!] and moved over to the fascinating area of live steam propulsion in their garden railway. That’s right, using the original method of driving the wheels around by generating real steam, using a gas or alcohol-fired burner, or even real coal to boil the water that makes the steam to drive the wheels.

How real is that?

Of course, opening this subject will generate a whole new world to most folks, used to turning a knob or pressing a button to make their little train do as they want it to – live steam can be a little daunting in that respect, with the need to pay close attention ALL the time. So let me get one thing straight before we move on -

With any live-steamer YOU are the engineer and conductor and maintenance crew all rolled into one, and if this is going to be too much of a chore for you, or you have problems in concentrating on the task in hand, then live-steam may not be for you.

AS with any other hobby, you can start small – highly recommended – and either stay small, or move on up in complexity. Believe me, this is the way to get going – it’s no use spending a whole pile of hard-earned $$$ only to find that it’s just too much trouble. The up-side of this is that you can often get a bargain loco this way - bought by some poor sap who spent a pile only to find that what he really wanted was just to see a train with smoke that made real train noises – pretty easy these days with swish electronics.

There must be a gazillion questions going on in your mind right now – how do I get started in live steam? How do I set up my track? What the heck is actually out there? Can I run a logging operation? Are these little locos really that controllable? Are they expensive? Are they [gulp] safe?

Well, it has to be said that there are two kinds of folks who move to live steam. The first are those who have already built a railway of some kind, and want to progress to a more realistic ‘steam’ loco look, sound and smell, and those who are outright beginners at garden railways, with no set preconceptions about the work and effort required to get the whole shebang working.

My first recommendation is to find a garden railway group or club locally that has members who run live steam – that way you’ll get to pick brains and get valid opinions from the get-go. Nothing beats running live steam except talking about it.
You’ll also benefit from getting hold of a few back-numbers of the Kalmbach magazine – ‘Garden Railway – it might even have one of the many articles in it from our famous Ontarian live steam guru, Jeff Young, whose compact and fascinating little line is based on British outline locos of small dimensions and easy handling. In fact, it was the Brits who started all this business of narrow-gauge live steam in the backyard, back in the late 1960’s and their famous loco builder, Roundhouse Engineering, has a world-renowned reputation for right out-of-the-box reliability.

Next, decide on what type of railway modelling appeals to you most, and it’s here, folks, comes crunch-time. Remember I said that starting small was a good plan? Well, the AccuCraft ‘Ruby’ a little generic-style 0-4-0 tank loco, is a great starter loco even better if you build it from a kit, and will set you back around $500 or so. There are a scad of after-market bits to dress it up, even to convert it to a tender loco or even a Forney, and it is limited only by your imagination. And then, it goes on up – AccuCraft are probably the most well-known name in US/Can live steam on our side of the water, and they make a couple of great logging locos – Shays – and are about to produce the Climax, too.

Add the range of cars of all kinds, you-build-ems or store-bought, and you will have your logging operation – these little locos will pull a HUGE load because of their low prototype gearing. You want radio control? It’s not difficult, and you can control the direction and throttle – even a whistle - by the use of modern 2.4GH radio control. These locos run on safe butane/propane mix, obtainable just about anywhere’ although it has to be admitted that our Canadian winter is not conducive to running gas-fired locos for technical reasons. Costs are commensurate with the complexity of the model, added to the fact that although they are built in a factory, they are HAND-built, but still bargains, in my opinion, nevertheless. A two-cylinder Shay will set you back about $1200 – and $1500 for the ultra-smoooooth three-cylinder version.

Safety can be an issue, IF you let it. They run on high-pressure steam - which HOT, and are fired by burning gas, which is HOT and the loco can get HOT, so yes, precautions are necessary to ensure that nobody who is not occupied with the actual running has their paws safely in their pockets and leaves alone. Not for nothing are we known as the ‘burnt-finger brigade’.

If you already have a ground-level track, then you’ll find out the hard way that only the geared logging-style locos can cope with a grade that would have your ‘sparkie’ loco sniff in disdain, after all, you just need to crank up the volts and ohms to get it up that hill, right? Well, in order to do the same with your steamie, you’d need to be around four inches tall…so radio control is a good plan there.

Ah, you’ll say, I’ve seen steam railways in the backyard on elevated tracks, with full-length passenger trains or long drags of freight steaming around at waist height…

Yups, that’s right, and these are mostly in the scale of 1/32, or Gauge 1, and here you are moving into the need to handle big models with ease and safety, rather than bust your spine reaching down on the ground. My Beyer-Garratt weighs in at around 18kg’ ready to run, and if you think I’m going to grovel on my hands and knees to futz around with THAT at ground level, then please thing again.

Hey, what’s this about Gauge 1? …and narrow gauge? Wojja mean? There are different scales of this stuff? And gauges, too? Heck, I’m confused!!!

All the more reason to join in a club or group and get unconfungled. Do you want to run narrow gauge? East Broad Top or Denver and Rio Grande? Darjeeling and Himalaya? Welsh? German? It’s ALL there to enjoy. Standard gauge? US or Canadian, German, British or what have you? Well, that’s there too. Little locos? Yup. BIIIIG locos – even a [gulp] Royal Hudson? Yup, that’s there too, with our own Alan Wright here in Ontario building the whole range of Grove smooth-siders to go behind it.

Dribble………

What will all this cost me? I hear the plaintive cry… Well, let me put it this way – was your first car a Rolls-Royce? Prolly not. Was it a reliable pretty basic family-type sensible car? Prolly was. It’s no use saying you can’t spend many thousands, by the time you’ve ended up with what you want. So start easy, d’ye hear?

So it’s the same with live steam. Smaller is most often cheaper, but bigger is a whole new ball-game…so my advice can be broken down into the following points –

  1. Join a club where you can meet up with people who have done it.

  2. Get ahold of a few back-numbers of ‘Garden Rail’ or ‘Steam in the Garden’ or the British ‘Garden Rail’ – the first and the last are available online, BTW.

  3. Start easy and pay attention to what you are doing – it’s not a good plan to hold an open day with pets running around the kids who are also running around and whose parents are running around chasing them all.

  4. Join in one of the website fora – the two best English language sites in North America [and by implication the world] are - www.mylargescale.com and www.largescalecentral.com - the UK has the newly opened but already very popular www.gscalecentral.co.uk with many of us from over here posting on it, too.

Any queries about this article can be sent to Dennis on his address posted on the home page, or to me, over here in UK but a proud member of the Ottawa Valley Garden Railway Society – www.ovgrs.org - my email is tadecfoley[at]aol.com - call me tac – I’ve never met anybody who can pronounce the real thing!

Happy Steaming!

tac
www.ovgrs.org

In California a live steamer using coal is probably illegal!

…though i would be curious to know what the “A de C” in your name means…no matter if i can pronounce it or not… :smiley:

Interesting article, though…
…it leads to a general thought: shouldnt we learn to use our hobby as “another world”? is it neccessary to search each single rivet?
And what means “prototypical”???

I think, the thing we DO with our hobby is the nearest prototypical operation WE can do on OUR layouts.
using lifesteam, or electricity or pushing by hand doesnt matter.

How deep anyone will go to find prototypical issues: everyones own playground!
What s important with a Garden RR?
building as detailed as possible?
having fun with the children?
Everyones own playground!
Spending more ore less----time or money…

This hobby is broad spreaded, and i like that about!

Imagine we would all drive D&RGW!!! Gardenrailroading is -much more than on smaller scales- an inspiration of mind, having ideas, building, tearing down, renew, …etc…

So, even lifesteaming is -in my eyes- a bit boring when there is no landscape, no bridge, no folks or animals, rocks, bushes etc.
Me, I like matching, fitting, “whole” pictures. Even with lifesteaming.

So: happy steaming!

Sorry, got a bit off-topic… :smiley:

Frank

I have been toying with the idea of getting a live steam. My primary would still be electric. I think having a live steam engine might be something fun to play around with. The price is what really keeps me away. If I were to get one I would go for the ruby. It seems affordable as compared to the other live steamers. Then their is the grade issue. My RR has grades. I would have to add radio control to the steamer to make it work on my layout. Like Frank I was never a big fan of a raised layout with no scenery etc… This summer my uniform allowence comes in and im hoping to use that money to buy the ruby unless I can get a better deal at York. I would even buy a nice little european steamer if I can get one cheaper then a ruby.

I’m to the point with all of this that I’d consider selling off our entire motive power collection for one or 2 Live Steamers, that new Mason by Accucraft is…well I can’t put it words…

any takers?

Nelson would this be a way of keeping the kids from playing with Daddys trains?

As for the new Mason the word that comes to my mind is HOT. :slight_smile:

Shawn said:
I have been toying with the idea of getting a live steam. My primary would still be electric. I think having a live steam engine might be something fun to play around with. The price is what really keeps me away. If I were to get one I would go for the ruby. It seems affordable as compared to the other live steamers. Then their is the grade issue. My RR has grades. I would have to add radio control to the steamer to make it work on my layout. Like Frank I was never a big fan of a raised layout with no scenery etc... This summer my uniform allowence comes in and im hoping to use that money to buy the ruby unless I can get a better deal at York. I would even buy a nice little european steamer if I can get one cheaper then a ruby.
Not to knock the Ruby, it's a nice little engine and can be modified to look like a lot of American profiles, but I think with your grades you may be disappointed. The Shay costs roughly twice to three times as much, but can easily handle grades while pulling a reasonable string of cars.

On my RR I have a 4% + curving grade. On dry rail the 2 Cyl Shay can pull 3 Bachman/AMS 1:20.3 plastic cars slowly up the hill. Once it gets wet and oily, I have problems, slipping in the center of the curve.

You might be better off saving up fro a geared loco.

C. Nelson said:
I'm to the point with all of this that I'd consider selling off our entire motive power collection for one or 2 Live Steamers, that new Mason by Accucraft is...well I can't put it words...

any takers?


I think I would wait a couple of years until the boys are a little older :wink:
Ralph

I got into LS when Aristo came out with the Mike. I’ve had a lot of fun with it and made several mods to the loco. It runs great and on a flat level RR I handled 18 cars easily. It’s a change of pace from the electrics and I enjoy going to steam ups. Been to a few in different parts of the country and it also gives me a chance to roam and meet new folks, great stuff. I have the new K-4 LS on order and can’t wait to get my hands on it. Fun Fun. Later RJD

Nice little article Terry :slight_smile: I didn’t have the time at work to read it, but am home now and just did and I think you did a great job with an introduction to LS.

Do we need a new acronym - Large Scale Live Steam LSLS ???

Thanks, Jon. It’s VERY hard trying to keep a measure of perspective from a noob’s POV - he sees the humungous great items like a K-36 and fifteen cars and thinks 'Holy shirt!!! I want some of THAT!!!

He forgets that getting to that point may have taken the proud owner ten or more years and the price of a small country in equatorial Africa.

Jeff Young started quite small and is still quite small, but his track is an example to us all.

Hey, that rhymes, donnit?

Tee hee.

tac
www.ovgrs.org

Jon Radder said:
Shawn said:
I have been toying with the idea of getting a live steam. My primary would still be electric. I think having a live steam engine might be something fun to play around with. The price is what really keeps me away. If I were to get one I would go for the ruby. It seems affordable as compared to the other live steamers. Then their is the grade issue. My RR has grades. I would have to add radio control to the steamer to make it work on my layout. Like Frank I was never a big fan of a raised layout with no scenery etc... This summer my uniform allowence comes in and im hoping to use that money to buy the ruby unless I can get a better deal at York. I would even buy a nice little european steamer if I can get one cheaper then a ruby.
Not to knock the Ruby, it's a nice little engine and can be modified to look like a lot of American profiles, but I think with your grades you may be disappointed. The Shay costs roughly twice to three times as much, but can easily handle grades while pulling a reasonable string of cars.

On my RR I have a 4% + curving grade. On dry rail the 2 Cyl Shay can pull 3 Bachman/AMS 1:20.3 plastic cars slowly up the hill. Once it gets wet and oily, I have problems, slipping in the center of the curve.

You might be better off saving up fro a geared loco.


Jon thats biggest concern with the Ruby is my grades. I might even consider a european for 500 or less bucks. I would love the shay but I cant see spending much more then $500 for an engine. Even $500 is a bit steep for me.

Hmmm the cheapest Regner steamie will set you back less than $500, but it won’t look like anything you’ve ever seen before in your life.

tac
www.ovgrs.org

Terry A de C Foley said:
Hmmm the cheapest Regner steamie will set you back less than $500, but it won't look like anything you've ever seen before in your life.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


Thats OK. It would be just for fun. You have a picture of one and where can I get one?

Shawn said:
Terry A de C Foley said:
Hmmm the cheapest Regner steamie will set you back less than $500, but it won't look like anything you've ever seen before in your life.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


Thats OK. It would be just for fun. You have a picture of one and where can I get one?

Shawn,
There are points to consider before taking the plunge.
“Steamers” require a bit of tinkering. Which is why most are run on elevated layouts.
I believe “run time” is around 10 minutes, sometimes even less.
Might be a good idea to attend a “steam up” and get a first hand look at it.
Ralph

If Shawn goes to York, he’ll see Live steamers… They always have a layout and engines running in the layout hall…

Terry A de C Foley said:
Thanks, Jon. It's VERY hard trying to keep a measure of perspective from a noob's POV - he sees the humungous great items like a K-36 and fifteen cars and thinks 'Holy shirt!!! I want some of THAT!!!!

He forgets that getting to that point may have taken the proud owner ten or more years and the price of a small country in equatorial Africa.

Jeff Young started quite small and is still quite small, but his track is an example to us all.

Hey, that rhymes, donnit?

Tee hee.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


Which small country? I keep getting these emails from some guy in Nigeria who wants me to send him some money. Is that the one? :stuck_out_tongue:

No Steve that guy’s going to give it back to you…'member

Andy Clarke said:
If Shawn goes to York, he'll see Live steamers... They always have a layout and engines running in the layout hall....
I don't think he can handle that yet dad! Some of them steamers are incredible!

Oh, yeah, I fergot.