There is a long standing policy here; We don’t own our threads.
You post them and takes yer chances.
Sometimes you get answers to questions you haven’t encountered yet…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
I did initially ask about possible problems with long trains and my layout but realizing that it could be difficult to speculate those issues, I further down asked for peoples experiences with long trains on their layout. This would give me an idea of what my potential pulling scheme would be for anyone with track configurations similar to mine. Specifically people who are pulling trains on 10foot diameter curves on level track. I have one level loop and one graded loop.
That said, I am also interested in collecting information together to help others know the potential problems and potential capacity for their existing railroad as well as help anyone planning new track know what limitations they may face.
There’s already plenty of good information in this thread that has helped me form ideas on what I might be able to run as well as what I can do to potentially improve my pulling long train.
Greg Elmassian said:
My only comment:
change to all body mounts except perhaps the intermodals.
Truck mount couplers exert twisting forces on the trucks, not good in any situation, horrible with a long train, because the forces become extreme.
Think about what the pulling forces are doing, they are trying to turn the trucks.
I have a 45 car train that goes up a 3.4% grade 60 foot long, levels out makes a hairpin turn 180 degrees and then goes down a 5.5% downgrade and turns at the bottom…
Could never do that with truck mounts…
Greg
With respect to truck vs. body mount couplers, I found similar experiences that Greg cited -except I found the USAT “intermodals” should have body mounts for the same reasons as other rolling stock.
Accordingly, I had been asked (and did) a Power Point / Keynote Presentation on body mounting couplers for the Bay Area Garden Railway Society (BAGRS) annual meeting in February.
Since the issue pointed out by Greg pertains to the detrimental “twisting forces on the trucks”, it may be helpful to see one of the illustration within that presentation - even if you don’t presently use body mount couplers.
Particularly, scroll to slide (page) 6 within the Presentation, to see illustration, title: “Why Use Body Mounts … Why Not Truck Mounts”
-Ted
Greg Elmassian said:
David please go back and read the first post, and see if you agree he was not asking about other peoples layouts and their definitions of long trains (which 13 cars is not), but for help with his specific problems:
“I am wondering though what the potential pulling limit would be on my layout. I have included a picture of the current layout. What is the best way, other then running a long train and hoping it doesn’t string line, to determine what my potential safe max capacity is?”
What I am saying is what I said, the thread is Nicolas asking for help in his situation, not someone else’s layout with completely different definitions of “long”, different cars, etc.
If someone asks me for help, I indeed strive to give him answers to his question. This really is no different from someone having track power issues and people popping up extolling the virtues of their battery system.
David Maynard said:
He was also asking for what the limit was, no pat answer. And what our experiences was…were, several answeres.
Greg in a later post he posted, in part;
Please share the longest trains you have run on your layouts including track radius and grade. Be as detailed as you wish.
I do not see how providing the information he asked for, in a later post, is the same as proposing a whole different system. So, I was answering his questions, questions, just not the first question. So why are we having this particular side bar conversation in this thread?
David Maynard said:
That is why elevated track makes me nervous.
That would scare the hell outta me. Especially with PVC and that far off the ground.
Thank you Ted Doskaris,. I lubed all the journals and moved the brake shoes away from the wheels. I only did this to my AML hopper cars too, just to see if they were the problem… and it allowed me a 34 car train today. The trucks are still pigeon toe’d, so that will have to be fixed at some point. I need to shoot you a message about that if it’s o.k.
Matt Russell said:
Thank you Ted Doskaris,. I lubed all the journals and moved the brake shoes away from the wheels. I only did this to my AML hopper cars too, just to see if they were the problem… and it allowed me a 34 car train today. The trucks are still pigeon toe’d, so that will have to be fixed at some point. I need to shoot you a message about that if it’s o.k.
Matt, You’re welcome. The pigeon toe problem is very significant - so that should be addressed, too.
It’s OK to send a message to me, but I keep forgetting to check for them since I have to long-in to see them.
I just looked now and had seen Eric R. sent me one in late Feb., My apology to Eric.
-Ted
oops
Its not my place to run the train, the whistle I can not blow
Its not my place to say how far the train’s allowed to go
Its not my place to shoot off stem, nor even clang the bell
But let the darn thing jump the track and see who catches ell.
Kind of opposite the problem Nicolas is having, fell the other way.
Greg Elmassian said:
Kind of opposite the problem Nicolas is having, fell the other way.
Ah. As one might deduce, my brain didn’t get that far at the time.
RE: Rail Pictures Comment: “Following a low-speed derailment that knocked a couple cars on the ground …”
I wonder if there is a turnout under some of those cars where the derailment happened, and maybe the tank car has shelf type couplers, that are mandated nowadays, that served to pull adjacent cars over with it.
-Ted
Minimum radii 4.5’ …maximum radii 6’…minimum grade .1/2% …maximum grade(approx) 3.825 and three 1/10ths %…minimum car length 12"… maximum car length 36" …superelevation on radii approx 2% …fully welded(soldered) rail running track power with approx 7% voltage drop on the outer loop 75’ from the feeder wire. Mostly body mounted Kadee 830 couplers but some truck mounts.
Staying on topic after rereading twice
looks like your curves have easements also
Greg, by easements, do you mean the transition from straight to the curve tracks? how is that accomplished if not using flex track?
Do you get some wider curve section, like for a 10’d curve would you use a 16’d section then a 12’d then the 10’d? I have had in my mind to do this on my layout anyway but was not real clear on how it is done. I may have to get more sectional track and save my flex for making the easements.
Nice pictures Rooster, and nice trackwork, the right turn coming off the really cool looking metal(?) bridge, those look a little tight.
Yep, the transition from straight to a constant curve by a curve of lesser curvature.
Ideally done with flex, with a constantly increasing curvature, but you can do it just like you said.
In real life, this is normal practice, as it minimizes “lurching” into a corner. The exception to using transitions into curves is freeways and streets. It caused confusion and poor lane control for cars, people want to turn the wheel and then hold it there, rather than continually adjusting it into and out of the curve.
Back to trains, this smoother transition from straight to curves also looks much nicer visually as evidenced by the pictures above, the last picture shows this pretty clearly, in my opinion. This is one of the issues when using sectional track. In my case personally, I really had to shoehorn my track into the space I have, but often used a 14’ or even 20’ diameter leading into a 10’ diameter curve and I can run REALLY long trains in a compact space.
Greg
I use a twenty foot section to lead into two 10 ft sections, then a 20 footer to lead out. Those 4 sections of Aristo track, 22.5° each, play well together. I frequently run long trains, as well.
I toyed with the idea of doing easement curves. Due to the construction method I used I was sticking to only sectional track. I was also sticking with USA Trains track. They make 10, 16 and 20’ diameter curves. Unfortunately the 16’ and 20’ are 22.5 degree segments where as the 10 was 30. I didn’t see a nice way to make that transition work. I did do the easement from my 10’ to 9’ for the few pieces of Aristo I acquired.
In my layout, I did/do easements into and out of curves, too, except in a few confined areas under my house where I had no room. (I use brass track under the house and stainless steel track outdoors.)
Before I got a rail bender, I cut wider diameter sectional curve tracks for the easement traditions under the house. I now use the rail bender to make a progressively gradual transition in one longer section of track. I suppose you can call this “flex track”, but I have used “standard” length straight or curves, too.
-Ted
