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Electronics Live Steam
#21
Ric Golding said:
Doc,

I’ve never had a problem with my two cylinder Shay. I’ve heard and seen the frustration of the people with the three cylinder Shays because they have to be “timed” and don’t always stay that way. You now have as much knowledge as myself on this subject.

Please excuse me now as I must hide from the stones and other projectiles that will be hurled in my general direction.


Thanks for helping with my education. The video (noted above) did briefly mention “timing” on the three cylinder Shay but did not go in to it further. An interesting bit of information when comparing these two nice locomotives.

Doc Tom

#22

My 3-c Shay was running again today for the third time this week - still works just fine and logged up well over 500 hours now. At a little show-and-tell that Broos and I ran a few weeks back it was running most of the day…

tac

#23

Way to go Doc. I seen that video and now I want one too and I was saving up for an Accucraft C-19 electrical. Now I might have to rethink that…

#24
Jake Smith said:
Way to go Doc. I seen that video and now I want one too and I was saving up for an Accucraft C-19 electrical. Now I might have to rethink that...
Hi Jake,

To increase the salivation for these nice lokies there are parts two and three for that neat video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4BnNupaXkE and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8z9-MqBHv4.

He did a really great job explaining the care and feeding of these interesting machines. I guess next bit of research is to find out just what “steam oil” is.

Doc Tom

#25

Doc Tom & Jake, you two watch out!. I have heard from the Burnt Fingers Club that steam oil is very addictive. :slight_smile: :smiley:

#26
Tom Grabenstein said:
Jake Smith said:
Way to go Doc. I seen that video and now I want one too and I was saving up for an Accucraft C-19 electrical. Now I might have to rethink that...
Hi Jake,

To increase the salivation for these nice lokies there are parts two and three for that neat video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4BnNupaXkE and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8z9-MqBHv4.

He did a really great job explaining the care and feeding of these interesting machines. I guess next bit of research is to find out just what “steam oil” is.

Doc Tom


It to lubes the cylinders. There a lubricator between the throttle and cylinders the put oil in the steam.
It is a special oil that blends with steam.
Rodney

#27

Hopefully not completely derailing this good thread but I did find this neat explanation of “steam oil” on the web:

"Steam cylinder oil is most frequently known as “600W” oil and can be or might not be compounded with other substances such as grease/graphite/beeswax. It barely pours at room temperature but is designed to be an adequate lubricant as it thins out at steam temperatures.

There used to be different “grades” of steam cylinder oil. The seminal book “Steam Engine Principles and Practice” by Terrell Croft describes various grades of oil available in the 1920s when the book was printed and mostly these grades seemed to follow steam temperature and whether the steam was wet or dry or superheated.

With the decline in demand for cylinder lubrication in our present day, the large varieties of steam oil are no more. Oil suppliers/refiners now carry one or perhaps two grades of steam oil but almost all carry at least one.

Some steam hobbiests complain about not being able to find steam oil. It’s a little rare and not exactly the kind of oil you’ll find at the local hardware store. However, if you find a branch sales office for Exxon, Gulf, or any of the major refiners, they should have something of this sort for sale. The downside is that likely you’ll have to purchase a minimum of 5 gallons and possibly a 15 gallon drum.

The Model A Ford crowd uses 600W oil in the transmission and rear differential of this venerable antique car. Quart size quantities are available from the Model A parts suppliers and can be purchased online from such places as www.snydersantiqueauto.com or www.macsautoparts.com

Failing in getting a supply of 600W oil this way, ordinary “STP” lube oil additive can be used straight from the can. It’s claim to fame is high viscosity, high bearing pressure, high lubricity and all of these make for an adequate albiet rather expensive cylinder oil.

One steam hobbiest I claim acquaintance with promotes the use of automatic transmission fluid. While a bit fluid at room temperature, the service that the oil is designed for includes the ability to retain viscosity at elevated temperature. He liked to raid junkyards and drain ATF from junk cars to get the best buy!"

I can feel my fingers burning as I search junk yards looking for ATF…what an interesting hobby!!!

Doc Tom

#28

Thanks for the info Tom. Whole sale sells the arsito steam oil by the quart. Thats where get mine from. Live steam is fun. Its not something you can just let run without watching like track powered. Its a lot of hands on and thats what makes it so much fun. If I could afford it I would get more live steam trains then electric. I think of all the electric trains I have they still dont cost as much as the shay.

#29

Hi Shawn,

I agree the whole procedure of filling the boiler by water glass, filling the injector with steam oil and firing the engine seems so like the prototype that it has got to be a lot of fun and historically accurate, I even got a good understanding of “blow down” by following the instructions on the teaching videos about the three cylinder water boiler. All very fascinating stuff.

Doc Tom

#30
Tom Grabenstein said:
Hi Shawn,

I agree the whole procedure of filling the boiler by water glass, filling the injector with steam oil and firing the engine seems so like the prototype that it has got to be a lot of fun and historically accurate, I even got a good understanding of “blow down” by following the instructions on the teaching videos about the three cylinder water boiler. All very fascinating stuff.

Doc Tom


Doc,

First you have to get the terminology right - it’s a “lubricator” not an injector. And the operation is a black art - tiny bits of steam oil get merged with the steam feed to the cylinders in an ‘emulsion’ (something else to research,) in order to deliver it to the cylinders.
Oil for steam engines has lots of additives - don’t even think of using 600W gear oil. Get some from a supplier of model steam engines.
Injectors are used on real engines to force (‘inject’) water into the boiler against the steam pressure. Unfortunately the physics doesn’t work at our scale, so we use pumps instead (although many locos have no way of filling once the boiler is warm - you just have to let it cool down when the water is gone.)

Blow downs vary by engine - especially Accucraft engines. Some are at the bottom of the boiler, and let you blow out the pressure when you are done. (A consideration is that you don’t let it cool down with the boiler closed - the contraction of the steam/water will suck oil into the boiler, so you need to open something.) Some are at the top, and let you push out water while warming up.

Yes, it is fascinating and just like the real thing - they even puff and splutter going up hills. And they get hot - we’re not called the burnt finger brigade for nuthin’. Check out the videos on Youtube - my ID is Fred2179 if you want to see some steam.

#31

Fred2179 - huh?

#32

I think it’s top secret code!

#33
Quote:
Doc,

First you have to get the terminology right - it’s a “lubricator” not an injector. And the operation is a black art - tiny bits of steam oil get merged with the steam feed to the cylinders in an ‘emulsion’ (something else to research,) in order to deliver it to the cylinders.
Oil for steam engines has lots of additives - don’t even think of using 600W gear oil. Get some from a supplier of model steam engines.
Injectors are used on real engines to force (‘inject’) water into the boiler against the steam pressure. Unfortunately the physics doesn’t work at our scale, so we use pumps instead (although many locos have no way of filling once the boiler is warm - you just have to let it cool down when the water is gone.)

Blow downs vary by engine - especially Accucraft engines. Some are at the bottom of the boiler, and let you blow out the pressure when you are done. (A consideration is that you don’t let it cool down with the boiler closed - the contraction of the steam/water will suck oil into the boiler, so you need to open something.) Some are at the top, and let you push out water while warming up.

Yes, it is fascinating and just like the real thing - they even puff and splutter going up hills. And they get hot - we’re not called the burnt finger brigade for nuthin’. Check out the videos on Youtube - my ID is Fred2179 if you want to see some steam.


Thanks for the corrections Pete. No plans on getting 600W gear oil…that article was just for fun. But it did explain a little about steam oil particularly how heavy it is.

I will have to start saving coins to get in to this interesting branch of our hobby.

Doc Tom

#34

Big foot -1 camera -0.
I need to get my Forney converted to RC.