Large Scale Central

Live steam traction and Inclines

Electronics Live Steam
#1

HI All

I am considering getting into live steam and would like to ask the collective brains trust about traction in the smaller locos.

I’m tossing up between the Accucraft Forney, Plantation or 2cylinder Shay. The first two being within my justifiable TWMBO $Aus price range and the Shay, second hand, being at the extreme top.

My garden logging railway has a few inclines of 1%-5% and Im concerned the smaller 0-4-0 engines will not be able to cope with this and that I should go with the Shay. I spoke to a live steam chap at the recent Brisbane train show and he said he had to level off his entire layout for his Forney to haul 3 wagons.

I have viewed several youtube vids of all the locos and the Accucraft Plantation 0-4-0 with 4 rolling stock in tow seems to have better traction than the Forney with only 2 wagons. They are of course not running on the same tracks and the Forney was being asked to work up a slight incline so its a bit difficult to tell between the two. The Forney seems to slip a lot more than the Plantation in general flat running and that, with superfast unrealistic speeds, has put me off the idea of the Forney.

Is the Plantation slightly heavier producing better traction? In anyone’s experience can it climb slight inclines of ~5%.

As I said prev, the Plantation is within my justifiable price range but I see there is an Accucraft Mich-Cal 2-Cylinder Shay for sale on this forum, which I might be better off spending my money on (or wait for similar if it has already gone). On Youtube vids it seems to have better traction to handle inclines and realistic speed control than the Plantation.

Regarding traction. Is it feasible to fit rubber traction tyres to live steam locos or do they require the wheels to slip to slowly move off?

Thanks for any help and info you can offer to a Live Steam noob.

#2

Hi Rob, I also have inclines, Thats why I like the small geared live steam engines like the Regner easy line. They climb up and down at a nice steady pace.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#3

Hi Ron.
Yes I discovered the Regner locos tonight and watched a few vids to see them in action. They certainly have a low gear ratio to get up inclines. What a pity they no longer make the “Shay” loco. It would so fit in with my rough and ready logging line. C’mon Regner…how about it…even in kit form.
I also found another loco by Roy Wood. “Jane” is similar to an IP engineering alcohol loco currently on eBay. Cheers.

#4

Rob, Did you check out Regners lumber Jack? Thats a nice running Backwoods loco.

#5

Rob I would stay away from any of the rod engines especially if you have grades, unless you plan on doing RC. I have the Forney and I really like it but it does lack in power. I can only pull a few cars and it is hooked up to RC. The Shay would be a good choice but also look at the Regner easy line. The Konrad will have no problem, the Lumberjack is another great one but tends to be a little faster then most of the other geared engines. If you check out my videos I have a good selection of steamers including the Shay, Konrad and Lumberjack. Also check out the Bellflower Cricket http://www.cricketlivesteammotor.com/

I dont have the Plantation engine but I do believe it is very similar to the Forney. If you want a rod engine look at Roundhouse Sammie.

#6

Thanks for the info Shawn. That and what Ron has said, confirms what I have been seeing on many other sites in the past week investigating the smaller engines. The Forney and Plantation are off my list. Accucraft shay is teetering. It depends if I can find a reasonably priced 2nd hand one. Pref 2 cylinder.

I hadn’t discovered the Cricket as yet. What a great little engine and amazing pulling power for its size.

I was on the brink of bidding on a Regner Willi in the UK last night, Oz time, but the killer was the postage to get it downunder. A$200. It adds considerably to the cost. I do like the Regner Lumberjack as it can be fitted with R/C etc but I’m also becoming a fan of the vertical boiler engines as they have a unique visual appeal. The Max also appeals due to its lower cost, so I wouldn’t be to afraid to bash it into something more rugged…

Decisions decisions…Cheers

#7

OK A 2cylinder shay can definitely do the job…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJi7MBVzugg

#8

What a little Beast!

#9

Rob, I have the Max. I would shy away from it. to much of a toy. Best Regners are Willi, Vincent, Otto. I like the Willi so much that I ordered a second one. Will be here tomorrow. When it is broken in, about 40 times. you can get about 40 min run time on a tank of gas. same with Vincent. Pay a few more dollars and you will be a happy boy.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif) By the way, I also have two Crickets. You cant go wrong with them. Art Ruiz is the best to deal with.

#10

Yes the Max lacks many of the features of the more expensive Regners…

Pay a few more dollars and you will be a happy boy.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Im beginning to see the logic in this. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#11

Welcome Rob!

#12

I was looking for a vertical boiler loco to build into a tram to name after my grand daughter. I priced the Max after seeing Rob Bennett’s modification and decided to buy my second Willi instead because of its higher level of equipment. My first Willi was converted to a logger with a steam powered winch on the front ala the Falk loco in California.

I have a Konrad I built in 2007 for a contest in Steam In The Garden converted to a cab forward tram with three trailing cars occupied by characters made from Sculpy by my son. I also have a much modified Accucraft two cylinder Shay I built when they first came out.

These three locomotives have run many miles at train shows on my portable tracks with very little concern and nothing but normal pre and post run maintenance. All three have water top up systems which allows them to be steamed indefinately. I believe the Regners need this since with judicious control of the fire the water always runs out before the gas. I also have a Cricket but it’s run time is much shorter than these three.

I am fortunate to own and run a number of live steamers and enjoy them all but The Regner easy line and Accucraft two cylinder have been bullet proof for me. I think you mentioned a logging line, you definately should have a Shay.

Best,

Tom

#13

Thanks for the info Tom.

Live steam is a new area of rail modeling for me so all the comments are much appreciated. Im really looking forward to one day having some steam on my line.

On my AddleDoo Tramway I currently I run a DC Bachmann 2 truck Shay, Climax and Heisler, with a Stainz as a MOW track cleaner. The layout is a double ended loop, polarity controlled with a YardMaster, of about 40 meters, with sidings for station, freight doc, lumber mill, engine shed etc. Last Christmas I built a 30m branch line up a steep grade (1:8), across a trestle, to a yet to be built logging camp loop. All the geared locos can climb it and even the Stainz can handle it with a light load. Im not too worried if a steamer can go up there, but if it does, it will be a bonus. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)From what I have seen the Regners might even manage that.

All very much a work in progress. Zoom (then click to zoom in and scroll.)

Addledoo Tramway

Rail Dog Mr Zu on the left. Live steam Mamod traction engine in the lumber mill shed.

Trestle

Pardon the 1:1 scale gum leaves. The tall trees are bonsai-ed Mellaluca Pink Tips. Very small leaves and textured trunks. Highly recommend them.Link

Oregano ground cover…tasty. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#14

Welcome aboard Tom, Any pics of your engines?(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#15

Hi Ron,

I’m not much of a photographer but you can see them on the 'net. You could google Regner Willi and look at images. My Willi is gray in color and lettered for McDavid Millwork. I extended the frame at both ends, added the second steam motor for the operational winch with valves and plumbing to operate either separately or simultaneously, lowered the fuel tank, added a catch tank and roof.

Google Regner Konrad and look for the red tram with three trailing cars. I built all the bodywork from brass along with the cow catcher and a friend made and applied the decals for the GB Andrews wild animal park. The trailing cars have brass bodies with wood seats, fuel and water tanks from black pepper cans with Ozark pumps and plumbing and figures made by my son, Greg.

The Shay, I don’t know where it might be found. I hope to rebuild it after all these years and enter it in the contest at the NG convention in Maine.

I don’t post much but would be willing to help anyone with questions. Also it’s kind of short notice but we’re hosting a steamup this Saturday at our home between Rochester and Buffalo, NY. Anyone (live steamers or not…we’ll hook you) in the area who’s interested is welcome to attend. Contact me directly for information.

Boil some water, (It’s the real thing in miniature)

Tom

#16

Thanks Tom I will look them up. Just received my second Willi today. I agree they are bullet proof. Good luck on your steamup.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#17

That’s pretty darn nice Tom!

I put it here for others to see. I hope you don’t mind. Willi & Konrad

#18

Sweet, What a great bash. My hats off to you sir. Cant beat Willi.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#19

Thanks Rob and Ron,

I have enjoyed the live steam hobby for almost 20 years and have made a lot of friends many of whom say I can’t leave well enough alone.

I appreciate your posting those pictures Rob except for showing the ugly old guy running the Konrad at Diamondhead. Interestingly, if viewers click on your Willi link and go to the seventh picture, that is the A-craft open cab Shay I mentioned earlier. Those locos are running on the second portable track I built and set up at Ridge Road Station which some of you may remember.

Ron, I hope to someday build a small live steam layout like yours and Shawn’s. He and I have run together a number of times at Scranton, PA especially with Scott McDonald in a triple Cricket lash up.

Rob, I apologize for hijacking your thread. Perhaps some others will chime in with information for you. At the risk of being tared and feathered, MyLargeScale has a more active live steam group than here and you may wish to ask for guidance over there.

Best,

Tom

#20

Hi Tom

No need to apologise. I have enjoyed the conversation and the insight. I have pretty much made up my mind now to look for a Regner of some description. I heard from Chris Stuart about his 2cylinder Shay he has for sale and the only negative is the cost of having it shipped to Australia. Mega $$

There are so many pros and cons around the Regner loco’s I have to make a spreadsheet to get my head around the options. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)

Ill let you know what I decide :slight_smile:

Regards

Rob