Large Scale Central

Lionel 4-4-2 Re-build Project

Modeling Motive Power
#1

We picked up one of these Aliantic Lionel Eng’s. and adding steel small pony and tender wheels. Wire up the Tender for all wheel track power p/u. Add brass bushing on the Main driver due to axles setting in plastic frame.

So here is a photos of the Eng.

Tender wheels wired in. By using small brass wire p/u’s help on wheel drag. ( Been doing this to all of our rolling stock that need track power to items and work out great for us over the years.)

Starting to in stall a Sierra sound sys. in the tender with Greg E. Speaker idea for better sound.

Sealed in place.

Looks like this is going to be a large project and have a lot of changes to do for our R.R.

#2

PRR E6s is one of my favorite steamers. Am assuming it is safe to assume that a large project successfully completed equals large satisfaction.

(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#3

Forrest Scott Wood said:

PRR E6s is one of my favorite steamers. Am assuming it is safe to assume that a large project successfully completed equals large satisfaction.

(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

Yes… there were a great little pass Eng. Hope ours turn out ok with lots of changes, but not going to end up as a PRR. It’s going to end up as a crossover breed to a Santa fe and Butthead Cove R.R. Pas Eng. After a little work so far on her, it seems to be a very smooth running Eng. Going to use it to just pull a couple of Heavy Wt’s.

#4

What colors? Something other or standard black?

#5

Forrest Scott Wood said:

What colors? Something other or standard black?

Most likely stay black with maybe do silver on the smoke box.

#6

Got the Frame on the tender wired up with a plug so i can just take the 4 screw off the tender shell and all of the electronics are easy to work on if needed. Still have to seal up the holes for the sound yet.

Built a Z bracket to and use Velcro to hold the Sound card plus mounting switches, so now just have to take off the Coal load to get to them.

Bottom side.

Top view showing with the coal load off. “Sorry for the photo with the reflection of the polished bracket.”

Going to be a lot of room for wiring and access to Caps if need replaced.

#7

I would post a blank to let you know that I am watching Pap but that would upset some. I’m glad you got the pic posting figured out!

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#8

" Rooster " said:

I would post a blank to let you know that I am watching Pap but that would upset some. I’m glad you got the pic posting figured out!

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Blanks are fine… lol.

We’re not that fussy.

#9

Noel Wilson said:

Forrest Scott Wood said:

What colors? Something other or standard black?

Most likely stay black with maybe do silver on the smoke box.

Even though they may be mostly hidden behind the air tank, how about the un-lagged lower firebox sides in silver too?

Comes to mind now that isn’t that UP’s look? The 844 was through town last month, maybe that’s why it is in my head.

Next question - why does what colors it is done in matter to me, it is your train!
Maybe I have too much free time and need a hobby? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)

#10

Have to keep this post referenced, I have one on the shelf, it will get used once the outside layout is built.

#11

Forrest Scott.

Some of the Southern Pacific Eng’s if I remember right, they had some with silver fire boxes. Kind of what I model and Santa fe stuff.

I don’t think this one would look good with a silver fire box.

So this one also has the S.P type of Head light hood like they did during the WW-2 war days. So like I said, it going to be a off breed.

Scott, do to you having to much extra time, Just take a trip to our area and I have lot of stuff to keep you busy. lol.

…

Vic Smith.

If you are going to do much running with your Eng. You may want to install some oil light brass bushing for the dr. axles… The axles are just setting in the plastic block frame. Won’t last long. Also, these Eng’s are so light and won’t pull much with out some wt. added. I hear that they have a lot of gear problems with having such large drive wheels, but our look fine so far.

One other thing we did to our out of box, This Eng. will wobble due to the short two axle dr. wheel base and I had to install a heaver spring on the pony truck to keep the Eng. running straight and true. Just to keep it from wobbling side to side on the rails.

I think there are really a nice milk run Eng. with just pulling a couple pass cars.

#12

Noel, my planned layout will be small, 10 x 20, and mine will only ever pull two cars. I think I should be okay as is but I will start looking for those bushing just in case.

#13

Oh, the wobbling brings to mind this from Alvin Stauffer’s 1962 book Pennsy Power, photo caption on page 127;

“Purest of the pure, pride of the fleet” (<-- all caps in book, and the whole caption is italicized for some reason) The E6s Atlantics were everybody’s favorite, even though none of them ever had stokers, feedwater heaters or power reverses.

Bud Rothar got this quote from an E6 engineer, “Nicest hand fired engines ever built. Speed Queens rode beautifully, but at 75 m.p.h. started a ‘tipsy’ side motion that many times scared crews, as they felt top heavy. Once up to 80 m.p.h., they settled back down and could keep right on climbing with no effort or effect on riding quality. They were very easy on coal and water, and were the pace-setters for timetable operations.”

My impression from reading various sources over the decades is they never did get to the absolute top end speed of these things. They could run like the wind with 9 to 12 car trains on generally level ground.

Same boiler was used on 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 locomotives. While book says the 4-4-2 rode well, it says the 4-6-0’s riding quality left much to be desired, a whole bunch to be desired.

#14

I read the reason 2-6-2s never gained traction here was the difficulty in balancing the drivers, I imagine the 4-6-0 may have shared that problem.

Noel, if it’s a California engine, doesn’t she need flames coming out of the wheel wells and some purple lights behind them too?

Nice Upgrading, she should serve you well.

John

#15

John Caughey said:

I read the reason 2-6-2s never gained traction here was the difficulty in balancing the drivers, I imagine the 4-6-0 may have shared that problem.

Noel, if it’s a California engine, doesn’t she need flames coming out of the wheel wells and some purple lights behind them too?

Nice Upgrading, she should serve you well.

John

…

Noel, if it’s a California engine, doesn’t she need flames coming out of the wheel wells and some purple lights behind them too?

Couldn’t resist, That funny.

#16

Nice conversion. I did one several years ago using QSI and tried to model to some point to C$NW specs. I also added weight and it runs pretty good.

Later RJD

#17

They are a great little Eng. and I seen one on FB swap shop and still around 150 bucks new in the box.

RJD…Do you have a photo of the Lionel Eng. you did in C&NW ??

#18

I think Michael Glavin " here local" was building a S…P 4-4-2 also from scratch. These are neat Little Eng’s.

I know he started on a P-10 ( 4-6-2 ) doing a S.P Daylight colors and has most of that done.

#19

Noel did you add weight and did you limit the downward driver travel so the gears won’t come out of mesh, and bring the loco out of quarter?

Greg

#20

Greg Elmassian said:

Noel did you add weight and did you limit the downward driver travel so the gears won’t come out of mesh, and bring the loco out of quarter?

Greg

Greg. I think when I had it opened a few yrs ago… that I had to re-mount the motor to seat the warm drive when I put in axle bushing. I just now check for any play and every thing seems tight and no movement on drive wheels. No down hill bucking.

I will check it again when I install the glass reed and cuff 4 mags.

I think I only at that time put 10 oz of Wt. Now that the Axles have bushing in, I can got heavy with lead. Maybe a pound or two…

Oops. Just read your web page and went to George Schryer on Wt’s. He put in around 3 lbs in his with no bushing, but shims for the dr. axles. So with the Oil light bushing I should be ok and ya, had to add some ties to the motor mounting to keep it from moving. One thing is it has a nice large motor for all the power you need. Kind of wish it had a flywheel on the motor tho.

I notice the flick board on the fire box was not working. So I will check that when I do the tear down for the change of re-wiring/plug to the tender.

Hey… that Speaker you told me about has a great bass and all around sound for a Sierra sound card. Nice and loud for a 1 watt/8 ohm . I was thinking maybe going to a 4 ohm… but this works fine…

One other thing and not sure yet… until I do a trial and error …if I going to have to do a series/parallel on the Super caps . It may have a large drain of the large Spk. mag.