My rule of thumb is that I am willing to invest 1/2 the cost of the loco for lighting and sound and remote control upgrades.
But cost can be relative, I bought a good running LGB Davenport (original 2063) for $26.00 (It had damaged steps that I glued back together). I installed a Zimo sound decoder in it.
I added all I could, LGB 5 volt smoke programmed for 3 heats, standard Kadees tied to servos with the ‘waltz’ programmed, modified the grill for a 2 inch speaker.
This engine will run on DC as well as DCC. Be interesting to see if all the features I added will work on the Airwire DCC and the Revo DCC or any other Battery remote controlled systems with DCC capability.
Of course like Greg when we do this type of work we do not have to pay for labor which can be $100 or more.
It’s hard for me to put a “value” on my locos, since many of them are scratch built or purchased at bargain-basement prices and rebuilt. In my case, being battery R/C, the price range for sound and control systems available ranges from $100 to $300 per loco. That’s for receiver/sound/control. I need that in every loco I put on the rails, so what I spend will fall somewhere in that spectrum regardless of how much money came out of my bank account to acquire that loco. I have no qualms about putting $300 of sound and control electronics into a loco that cost me pennies. Good sound and control is what I value in a model above all else, so that’s where my resources go. If it doesn’t run well or sound realistic, I’m not going to run it. To me, there’s no point in saving a few bucks on a sound system if it means you’re never going to run the loco once it’s installed. It’s a waste of money to spend anything for a sound system you’ll never hear.
If good quality sound is important to you, spend the money on the good quality sound. You’ll be glad you did every time you hear the locomotive roll by on the railroad. Who cares how little the loco cost. Think of it this way–you got a great sounding locomotive for the price of a great sound system! Who doesn’t love a bargain like that?
Later,
K
I would submit that you could value your locos by the dollar value of what you would trade it for. If you have a lot of personal time invested, then it surely must be of more value.
Well…
P&CS number 7 started life as a Heartland Forney. She lost her front truck, got a new boiler and cab, a reworked bunker, some detail parts and a custom paint job. I would trade her for nothing, at least nothing reasonable. So that makes her worth what? Nothing? Nothing reasonable? The replacement cost of Heartland Forney?
See, I am still lost in the fog of the idea that expensive sound systems are not going to be installed in less expensive locomotives. If I could have afforded better sound systems when I started out, I would have purchased better sound systems.
Yep, from your first paragraph, you are indeed lost in a fog.
You really cannot value that loco? Would you trade it for a McDonalds hamburger? What about a Merceds S class car? Really David, you could put your hands around the approximate value.
Another way to look at this is, perhaps there are people who want all their locos to sound good, regardless of cost of the loco.
I think your history of what you bought when you started out is of anecdotal value only, what is your stance today?
Greg
Well said, Greg.
Greg Elmassian said:
I would submit that you could value your locos by the dollar value of what you would trade it for…
Sadly, in the eyes of a buyer, a $150 Bachmann 4-6-0 is a $150 Bachmann 4-6-0 no matter how well-clothed. The only time cosmetic modifications bring in more money for a locomotive is when someone is specifically paying you to do the cosmetic work to their locomotive for them. (Then it’s them who won’t recoup that money on resale, not you.)
Nah, for me, the “value” of a loco doesn’t enter the equation. When I start a project, I have a vision for how I want the finished model to look, sound, and operate. The cost of the components to get me to that goal are part of the deal. “This is what I want, this is what it’s going to cost to get me there.” I don’t have any kind of timeline for completing my models, so if I need to wait to save up for the right component, it’s not a problem. Plenty of other projects to work on in the mean time. I’m never for a lack of projects, and Lord knows I’m not for a lack of locomotives. Lack of shelves, maybe, but that’s another project.
One serendipitous side effect of “pacing myself” in this way is that newer technology sometimes crops up in the mean time, and I can take advantage of that to make the model even better.
Later,
K
Greg Elmassian said:
Yep, from your first paragraph, you are indeed lost in a fog.
You really cannot value that loco? Well, that is really 2 different answers. Its worth a lot to me, personally. But on the resale market it isn’t worth much. Would you trade it for a McDonalds hamburger? No. What about a Merceds S class car? What is that? I am a truck kind of guy. Really David, you could put your hands around the approximate value. Yes, yes I can. But the value I place on it is well beyond what anyone would pay for it.
Another way to look at this is, perhaps there are people who want all their locos to sound good, regardless of cost of the loco. Exactly!
I think your history of what you bought when you started out is of anecdotal value only, what is your stance today? Same as its has been. I want good sound, but I don’t want to have to mortgage the dog, the house and sell the Jeep to get it. I am “frugal” and so I look for a good deal, but bad sounding sound cards are not a good deal to me, they are worthless to me. Again, The Phoenix are a bit expensive to put in all my locomotives, but I was working on getting Siearras into as many of them as possible, then Soundtraxx discontinued the line. So that would put me in the $100-$200 range for sound if need be.
Greg
Also some of my posting was a bit tongue in cheek, to keep the conversation going. We don’t all see things the same way, and that can be a good thing. And where we cut costs and where we splurge is one of those things we don’t all agree on.
Ahhh!!!
For some reason David and Kevin have translated the “value” into what you can sell it for…
Not at all the same thing or question I asked. “What is it worth to you?” The time and money to replace it… no one is talking about selling something.
What you can sell it for is another animal, and I submit is not what and individual would factor in when deciding to spend more money on a loco. (unless you worry about buying and selling all the time)
So, you guys are being pretty resistant to focusing on the question, and I submit an honest answer would make it clear to you how much you would spend on this loco and ultimately answer Peter’s question, would you put an $80 sound system in a small (which normally implies inexpensive) loco.
To drive this home to where I think it’s impossible for you to counter, an example:
I tend to keep my cars a long time. I had a very expensive Audi, and it hit over 200,000 miles and while it cost $80,000 new after many years, while still a beautiful car, and running perfectly, had a wholesale blue book value of $6,000…
So the dealership went nuts every time I brought the car in for any maintenance or repairs, going completely bonkers when I replaced the transmission at 160,000 miles, because that that point the RESALE value was less than the transmission replacement. I should buy a new car and not put any more money into a car I could only sell for a little.
BUT!
The VALUE of the car to me was much higher, and I enjoyed my perfectly functioning car for another 60,000 miles before I bought a new one.
So, the VALUE to me was significantly different that the RESALE amount that could be had.
I know you are giving me a bit of a hard time David - and Kevin, your 180 degree phase shift with most of my opinions is well documented, but both of you shifting to RESALE value is not the same as VALUE to an INDIVIDUAL.
Gentlemen, I rest my case.
Greg
Once again, Greg, it appears we are actually in agreement here. “Value” in terms of what the locos are to me? Priceless! Each and every one of them. Some of them are two years in the making. Even the more simple “mostly repaints” locos represent sometimes upwards of six months of time assembling the components necessary. By your equation of “half the cost of the locomotive” for sound and control, what’s half of “priceless?”
You asked: “I submit an honest answer would make it clear to you how much you would spend on this loco and ultimately answer Peter’s question, would you put an $80 sound system in a small (which normally implies inexpensive) loco.”
Let me be clear in my response: Absolutely, and without a moment’s hesitation. I’d put a $500 sound system in a small (inexpensive) locomotive if that’s what it took for that loco to meet my expectations for the finished model.
That’s the point I was making above. It’s all about the finished product for me. I know what I want in the end, and I know certain requirements carry certain costs with them. The out-ot-pocket expense of the physical model from which I start a project has no influence on the out-of-pocket expense of any other component of that project, be it custom-made parts, paint, graphics, or electronics. If the model needs it, it gets it. It may take a while for funds to accumulate, but this isn’t a race. It’s a journey. You either spend the money to do things right the first time, or you spend it to re-do it right the second. The result of that process–a model which is priceless to me regardless of any amount I may be able to sell it for.
That is a distinct contrast to those who would base the out-of-pocket cost of aftermarket add-ons on the out-of-pocket cost of the locomotive in the first place. I don’t necessarily understand that mindset, but I think a lot of that has to do with me seeing the physical locomotive as it comes out of the box as one component of the whole, as opposed to the whole in and of itself. To me, the loco as it comes out of the box is the starting line, not the finish line.
Later,
K
Well, indeed for many people who mostly purchase locos and do not “tweak” them or customize them, the “value” is probably what it is worth on the open market, but your personal “value” may be different. How do you put a price on something you spent a lot of time getting the way you want.
In my case there are some items that are no longer manufactured that have a higher value to me than the “market price”…
I wish I had your free time to customize things… maybe when I retire…
Greg
“What is it worth to you?”
I said, “But the value I place on it is well beyond what anyone would pay for it.”
would you put an $80 sound system in a small (which normally implies inexpensive) loco.
I also said, “that would put me in the $100-$200 range for sound if need be.”
So yes, yes I would put an $80 sound board in a small loco, if it sounded good.
sorry for not understanding you David… got it now!
thanks
Greg Elmassian said:
I wish I had your free time to customize things… maybe when I retire…
Ha! Perhaps you missed my “two years in the making” reference? 
Seriously, I’m far from anything that could be described as an efficient factory. I’ll peck away at a project in fits and starts, mostly as inspiration dictates. But, that slow pace has distinct advantages on the hobby budget. I’m not buying much rolling stock anymore, my railroad is as large as it’s going to get, and my garden is well-established. I add maybe one loco every year to the roster, sometimes two if the right deal presents itself. What else is there besides electronics that needs upgrading on the line? That’s how I can spend $300 per loco on electronics. I’m not spending it anywhere else.
Later,
K
For many of us, well me fer instance, it depends on cash on hand and bills paid first.
I’m taking myself off this wish list as I can’t or won’t try to stuff 9 or more volts into a battery pack in my truck. I’ve found Robotic Drives at 4.5v and Dallee has a 6v sound card that has all the variations I could use. Perhaps a resistor can balance the two?
Will I ever buy one? If it depends on the Lottery, doesn’t look good as; I can’t loose if I don’t play…
John Caughey said:
For many of us, well me fer instance, it depends on cash on hand and bills paid first.
I’m taking myself off this wish list as I can’t or won’t try to stuff 9 or more volts into a battery pack in my truck. I’ve found Robotic Drives at 4.5v and Dallee has a 6v sound card that has all the variations I could use. Perhaps a resistor can balance the two?
Will I ever buy one? If it depends on the Lottery, doesn’t look good as; I can’t loose if I don’t play…
Diodes, or an adjustable voltage regulator, would probably be more stable.
Thanks Dave, that’s why I said it out loud, left to my own devices… well … no seegar.(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)
