Large Scale Central

Light Industrial Diesels and Gas Locos

Electronics Power and Sound
#61

Why not use a DCC sound decoder for sound if it has the sound you need and at a lower cost than dedicated sound boards.

You can have fan type smoke units realistically controlled by these decoders and have remote uncoupling whereas dedicated sound boards do only sound.

Sure it is not for everybody, just another option some may be interested in especially since newer R/C controllers have a real DCC bus available that can control all these features.

Note, I can remote uncouple Kadee’s without using their transmitter/receiver and I use standard servos with jewerly chain and regular KADEE’s at a cost of less than $20 for 2 remote uncouplers!!

#62

Dan. How much do those newer R/C controllers that have a real DCC bus available, cost?

Do they talk directly to a DCC decoder and can they run on battery power?

#63

Dan, yea, ok, but I am analog DC here. So I need a board that does that. Automatic start/stop/reverse whistle is a must. A reed switch triggered bell and whistle would be nice. The rest is either icing on the cake, or added extraneous stuff I don’t need and/or won’t use.

I have a QSI board in my E8. I will eventually replace it because it doesn’t do what I want it to. Oh sure, if I were using DCC or RC it could sing and dance. But on analog DC it just makes motor noises.

#64

David, try reversing the voltage to the track quickly… you can sound the bell, horn, and actually if you were good at it, all 30 or so sounds remotely.

Did you know that it can be remotely controlled on DC this way?

Also, why does everyone go ballistic when you suggest running a DCC decoder on DC? The Phoenix is a DCC decoder that works on DC?

Anyway, David, let me know what your decoder could do to make you happier, email or start another thread. They do sound great in E8’s especially with dual speakers and the dual prime mover set to on.

Greg

#65

Dan Pierce said:

Why not use a DCC sound decoder for sound if it has the sound you need and at a lower cost than dedicated sound boards.

  1. No sound at low voltages

  2. Must have DCC capability to program the board in the first place

  3. Requires full-on installation of decoder into the locomotive as opposed to simply tapping into the voltage coming from the tracks.

If you have the DCC capability (#2), then in all likelihood #3 isn’t an issue for you, but if you have DCC capability, you’re probably not running analog DC as a native mode of operation.

Later,

K

#66

Greg Elmassian said:

David, try reversing the voltage to the track quickly… you can sound the bell, horn, and actually if you were good at it, all 30 or so sounds remotely.

Did you know that it can be remotely controlled on DC this way?

Yes I know, but the Aristo TE will not switch polarity fast enough.

Also, why does everyone go ballistic when you suggest running a DCC decoder on DC? The Phoenix is a DCC decoder that works on DC?

I wasn’t going ballistic. But in order to set up a DCC decoder, I would need a DCC programing track for large scale. Something I ain’t got. So all I can do is run it straight out of the box, and many DCC decoders do not have trigger inputs, so I cant control anything on them with analog DC.

Anyway, David, let me know what your decoder could do to make you happier, email or start another thread. They do sound great in E8’s especially with dual speakers and the dual prime mover set to on.

Greg

#67

There’s a number of decoders that can be programmed without a DCC system Oh, so can the QSI…

Also you can get a brand new 2 amp DCC system for $150…

And you can slow the loco to a stop and it will still make sound… the track will be around 5 volts…

Oh David, there’s simple solutions, but you said you run DC, not the Aristo system… add a relay to flip the polarity, connect it to a TE function and you have remote sound immediately.

I actually built 2 of these for a friend a while back, one function button did the bell and another the horn/whistle.

There’s all kinds of solutions if you open your mind to them. It’s your loss as an individual if you close out your options…

Greg

#68

Greg Elmassian said:

There’s a number of decoders that can be programmed without a DCC system Oh, so can the QSI…

Also you can get a brand new 2 amp DCC system for $150…

Yes, you can use PC interfaces to program DCC decoders without “needing” a DCC system. QSI has their proprietary interface, and you can use JMRI and a SPROG to program any number of other boards. That’s added hardware and hoops to jump through. And, yes, you can get a low-end, low-power DCC system if you wanted to. The JMRI/SPROG system is cheaper, and the programming interface is infinitely more user-friendly.

Again, folks who are of the mindset to jump through those hoops are not using analog DC track power.

Greg Elmassian said:

And you can slow the loco to a stop and it will still make sound… the track will be around 5 volts…

Yes, but what happens when you change directions? A fair number of systems drop the track voltage to 0 volts before allowing you to change directions as a safety feature to prevent gears from stripping. The sound drops out. There’s no way around it unless you can connect some kind of “keep-alive” to the decoder. More complexity added to the equation.

The simple reality is this… DCC decoders have pretty much always had the ability to operate in analog DC. They have never made inroads to the analog DC sound market in any scale. Pretty much the only place you’ll find DCC decoders being used for sound in analog DC environments are where folks are buying DCC-equipped locos because that’s the only way the locos come from the factory.

Yes, DCC decoders are cool. (I use 'em for exactly that reason!) The folks who specifically want that kind of control over the sound are not the ones running analog DC track power. It’s a different mindset. Analog DC is simple. Put the loco on the track, apply voltage, watch it move. DCC decoders are not remotely aimed at that kind of modeler. Not by a long shot.

Later,

K

#69

I have a DCC++ system hooked to my computer, so I can program my HO locomotives with JMRI. But I don’t think its powerful enough to do large scale. Besides, I am not dragging my tower outside to find out. And there is no room where my computer is for a stretch of 45mm track.

My outdoor railroad is set up with relay controlled stop blocs, and relay controlled reverse loops, and works quite well. To change over to DCC, and still have automatic operation like I have now, would be expensive, if its even possible.

But, this thread was started to ask about sound boards for small engines running on analog DC power. Yes, I am looking for sound for all my locomotives, that will work on DC analog, without any change in the railorad’s infrastructure.

I have lost count of how many locomotives I have, but I have enough that changing over to any other control system would be cost prohibitive. Heck, just getting sound for all my locomotives have been a years long process, partly due to the costs involved.

#70

Zimo makes a MX645 which is a HO decxoder!! It has voltage specs for Largescale (35 volts and 50 volts peak).

Also note for Kevin The MX699 Zimo decoders have super caps that keep it alive while changing direction built in to all these decoders. Other Zimo decoders need super caps added.

#71

Why are the DCC folks so eager to prevent another sound card from being offered?

I hate the look of track clamps and I don’t buy the crap that they are easy to bury on the mainline. I’m a visual artist and sound is a secondary consideration.

So far I’ve been content with canned sound cards in my 2 battery locos, that are, as Kevin pointed out, very easy to install.

I have a Mack pick’em up rail truck in the works and this card could be the cat’s meow!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#72

John Caughey said:

Why are the DCC folks so eager to prevent another sound card from being offered?

I hate the look of track clamps and I don’t buy the crap that they are easy to bury on the mainline. I’m a visual artist and sound is a secondary consideration.

So far I’ve been content with canned sound cards in my 2 battery locos, that are, as Kevin pointed out, very easy to install.

I have a Mack pick’em up rail truck in the works and this card could be the cat’s meow!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

I don’t think its actually prevention, its more like one upmanship. “oh, I got something better” Well, in some applications it is better. but for other applications, it isn’t.

I can look past the track clamps, well, the split jaw ones I can, the Hillmans are more obvious.

I looked into DCC when I started. I had a operation plan in mind, and the DCC folks I spoke with were uncertain if DCC could even do what I wanted. If it could do it, it would require block occupancy detectors, and some kind of programmable do hickey to slow and stop the trains in the stop blocks, and then restart the trains when required… So for less then $8 in parts ( mostly relays) I have exactly the operation that I wanted, and I can take any stock DC locomotive and run it right out of the box. Meaning I don’t have to add any more parts/expense to the locomotive just to run it.

Now I just want sound that wont break the bank, doesn’t require any changes to the electrics of the railroad, doesn’t require special programming apparatus, and is simple to install. Like I said, I was hooked on the Sierra units before they went out of production. Phoenix is still a bit spendy for me, but I was starting to seriously consider that route. But less costly options, like the one that this thread was started about, interest me.

#73

Pete Thornton said:

what type of motor sound would you suggest for an Eggliner?

Now that’s a novel question. I await some answers from our Eggliner experts.

I had Dan at Train-Li install a Zimo DCC Sound card that plays the flight of the Bumblebee and has the lights flashing.

#74

When I suggested the DCC decoder is was NOT this one has better sound, it was a choice of quality sound with many features and at less $$ than some other sound only methods.

These decoders will give a realistic sound of engines (by reading the BackEMF of the motor) under various loads rather than just a sound form a voltage setting, and do the same for those that use smoke units with or without fans!!!

#75

OOPS duplicate post

#76

Dan.

I fully understand your enthusiasm for what you are involved in promoting and selling. No doubt it is a high quality product and well priced.

The problem for most battery R/C users and many regular DC users is that;

  1. You cannot use them with PWM output track power units or battery R/C ESC’s.

  2. There is only one trigger. If that is used for chuff, how do you trigger Whistle/Horn and Bell etc?

  3. You have to have a DCC system to program them.

The MyLocoSound;

a). Works with PWM or regular Linear DC. Has voltage controlled or triggered chuffs.

b). Has at least 4 x triggerable sounds.

c). Can be programmed with a A$12 Sony compatible IR Remote.

#77

If using the Airwire system they have a convertr that will drive a largescale decoder and all the sound features will be available without a separate transmitter.

I would think other remote control manufacturers will do the same.

#78

Dan Pierce said:

If using the Airwire system they have a convertr that will drive a largescale decoder and all the sound features will be available without a separate transmitter.

I would think other remote control manufacturers will do the same.

Thanks Dan.

So you would then have the extra cost of the AirWire convertr added to the decoder itself. Yes?

#79

Dan Pierce said:

If using the Airwire system they have a convertr that will drive a largescale decoder and all the sound features will be available without a separate transmitter.

I would think other remote control manufacturers will do the same.

If, then, maybe.

But I am analog DC, track power.

#80

Mr Lucas,

It seems to me by the 1st and 3rd responses to your “Original Post” there certainly is an interest in such. I personally have no interest in such as I model Amtrak by eye and would love to hear a DC or Battery powered sound card of Nathan K5’s and diesel rumble if that is possible. To me ease of installation is appealing and making noise while running straight DC is appealing. Not interested in how many features it has and honestly in my book sound is a commodity not a necessity.