Large Scale Central

Lift-Up Bridge --- Don't ya hate when this happens

General Discussion
#1

My indoor loop/yards now include 2 lift up/folding bridges where the main crosses an aisle. I have implemented rules and procedures to prevent a train from rolling into the abyss - When the bridge is opened, a Blue Flag (Ric Golding’s Aristo hex tool idea) is to be placed on the track. I drilled a hole through a tie and the roadbed to hold the flag secure in the center of the tie. In tests the flag lines up with the coupler and will stop a slow moving train. The stop is abrupt and not great for the equipment, but better than rolling off the bench.

Too bad I can’t follow my own rules.

Last night I was doing some switching. I was backing a short train around the balloon track with the bridge out of my sight line. All of a sudden I heard an unusually loud bump where there should have been a click from the bridge joint. I hit the emergency stop in time to keep the train on the track, but the caboose and brakeman were lost to into the abyss.

4 Foot down to bare concrete. Sounded bad. Looked better; the caboose was still all in one piece. The wreck crew recovered the caboose but still hasn’t located the body of the brakeman. Back at the shop, a full inspection noted surprisingly little damage. One hand rail popped off, the roof joint separated from the body a little and the body was unsnapped from the frame at one end. There were minor scars on two corners of the roof and the coupler tang was bent.

Repairs took all of about 15 minutes leaving only the minor scars on the roof. It appears that the truck mounted coupler absorbed the majority of the blow when the coupler mount buckled. But with a little gentle persuasion it was moved back to near normal.

I learned 3 things. 1 - Bachmann cars are surprisingly sturdy. 2 - Always check the bridge before crossing. 3 - Always follow your own rules.

Now where the heck is that brakeman and why didn’t he pull the emergency cord when he saw the bridge was up? Dang plastic people, always sleeping.

JR

#2

Make sure ya Fire him before the Body is recovered…that way the feds won’t list it as an “On the Job Fatality” (CSX operating practice from what I hear…)

#3

Ow.

I usually ducked under mine. When I did lift it up, I put it back down immediately.

#4

I recall a switching move in Essex at one point … Engine 97 and 8 cars, the last of which was the old “Open Air” gon (Lehigh New England, circa about 1912, incidentally) … backing the train from the passing track, down across Plains Rd, and then pulling forward into the station on the main, adjacent to the platform.

I tested the back up valve, then called the engine on the radio, told him to back up. Three blasts on the whistle. Train starts backwards. Fellow standing near the crossing sees us start back, and presses the button to start the gates. Bells, Lights … traffic stopping… gates start down … two cars jump the line, and get caught on the track between the gates. The safety valve on the locomotive chooses this moment in time to lift.

“Engine 97, Stop the train.”

(pause… steam still escaping)

“Engine 97 Stop the train now!”

(pause… steam still escaping, train still moving…)

“Engine 97 to brakeman, repeat that last?”

<< Sound of Emergency Brake application from back up valve, and then all 8 cars sequentially >>>

Train stops several feet from grade crossing. Employee on the ground stops gates, wide eyed violators move on…

Safety valve on locomotive seats. Pumps thumping away full blast.

“Oh… THAT’S what you said … uh, give us a minute to pump back up …”

No vehicles were harmed in this production … and no passengers on the train to complain.

Hand signals are not always a bad idea… sometimes low tech is the thing!

Matthew (OV)

You know, thinking about this, Jon, perhaps what you need is a derail a few feet inland from the bridge (but still within reach, obviously) instead of a blue flag … that way your train would go on the ground before falling into the chasm…

#5

Best practice I’ve seen in the smaller scales with a lift-up bridge is where the current is cut off when tha bridge is lifted, halting any trains till the bridge is lowered, Works great. Of course if your battery R/C then that a different matter, maybe the small hex blue flag should be upgraded to a large screwdriver blue flag.

#6

I’m glad my railroad is outside and I have to step over the tracks!
Maybe your brakeman took a walk and that’s why he didn’t throw the brake. I “lost” a Kadee coupler off a passenger car and never did find it. I know I have poor eyesight but it must be there somewhere! And it should have fallen on the track and caused a derailment but it didn’t!

#7

Oh , dear , having dropped my kit built wooden stuff once ,I feel for ya !!!
However , could you not put in a check point operated by the bridge lifting ? Or even a simple magnet operated contact to enable a scream of “THEBRIDGEISOUT”

#8

One might give consideration to a ten pound (16.66kg) sand bag placed ever so delicately over the tracks a suitable distance before the abyss. I find this to be very satisfactory. :smiley: Color it blue if you like.

madwolf

#9

Add me to the list also …layout is elevated 3 feet up , 4 foot long lift out bridges for access to the inside of the layout …a fellow model railroader told me that I should interlock the track power for a bridge being out . To which I proclaimed "what idot would remove the bridge himself , and then run off the track into an opening " .
Well , this idiot did the next year , ran the fast express train out of the garage storage , and opened the throttle up , made myself busy with something ,and then , the sound and just in my side vision , I see the LGB express train and 6 cars , diving into the air and down , and then it was quiet .
Just dirt and grass stains , nothing broke , but going thru a removed bridge opening , can happen .
No I never interlocked the bridges , but I never did that stunt again .
Now the lift out bridges are gone this year .

Of course the real railroads have went thru opened up bridges also , but who wants to model that .

#10

The blue flag thing works fine, so long as I don’t try to run too fast and I remember to put it in place.

An electrical interlock would be simple, but I run both battery and track power, so it would only protect some trains. I’m afraid of putting faith in an interlock and then running a battery train off the edge.

A derail might work. Track is close to the edge of the bench so I’d have to be sure it always derailed to the outside of the circle, shouldn’t be too hard to design that.

I didn’t mention the other end of the fold-up bridge… It folds onto the benchwork over the approach track. No way your going off on that side, but a head-on collision with a folded bridge is no fun either.

Tom - I gave up on the lift-out or duck-under. That’s why I built the folding bridges. I’m too old, too fat and my knees are no good. Ducking under is no longer an option.

JR

#11

Jon,

You could interface a Gyro-Light which runs as soon as the bridge is open and power is on in the layout room. :wink: :slight_smile:

#12

Jon,

How about a narrow radius turnout with most of the turnout rails removed? If set to derail it just puts it on the ground. But I hate to say this, you would still have to put it in place. How about a u shaped spring loaded bracket that is surpressed below the rails when the bridge is in place by the one leg of the u being held down by the bridge. When the bridge is raised, the other leg of the u pops up between the rails and blocks anything taking to flight.

#13

Good idea Ric except this bridge is in the middle of a loop - all curves. A custom job would be need to use turnout parts. The other idea is more engineering than I’m willing to invest :o

I’ve been dealing with lift-outs and fold ups for several years. This is the first fatality. I had many more fatalities at the grade crossing when I kicked a combine across the front yard. That and the important piece, the van, came out of it only slightly worse for wear.

I think I’ll stick with the current rules / protection and be more careful to follow them.

HJ - Since the bridge is open more than it’s closed, that light would get darn annoying.

JR

#14

The check points used in prototype working only break one rail , that’s all that is needed . It would also be an interesting feature , bound to raise questions and comment .They are generally the type that allow derail in one direction and allow wheel pressure to make it safe in the opposite direction .
Mike

#15

Good thought Mike. That would be fairly easy on a curve - just cut the outside rail on an angle and provide a means to bend the rail toward the center. A wheel approaching from the un-bent direction would be forced outside the rails. Another idea would be to use a sort straight point on the inside rail of the curve. This would hopefully force the opposite wheel to climb over the outside rail. Here in the states we use cast derails…

The usually just flip up over the rail and cause any passing wheel to be forced up and over the rail. I’ve never seen one for Gauge 1 track. I wonder if anyone make them. JR

#16

Don’t think anyone makes them … most model rr folks are trying to keep their trains ON the track!

Got a B-mann shay? You could modify the rerail frogs to derails.

Personally, I like the single point ones … there’s one on the house track at Deep River, incidentally. Opens one rail, car gets pulled off that side.

#17

Couple of things we did for folks in “0” when we built railroads that had to have liftout.

One, since it was track power, is each end had a 3-way trailer plug.
One wire was dedicated to let’s say the north rail of the bridge, and the north rail of the approach track on each end.
The south rail of the approach track was gapped far enough back to stop a speeding locomotive, and the power came from the other side of the gap.
This was one wire of the plug.
It attached to the south rail on the liftout, THEN came back the remaining wire and powered the “gap”.

The other was a BIG square-“U” shaped piece of round-stock metal.
Two holes, one up between the ties on the approach track, the other in the lip that the liftout rested on, and a spring underneath the benchwork.
Lift the bridge out, the spring pulled the “U” shaped piece up, and the train would hit it and stop if the bridge was out.

I can imagine a solenoid and a microswitch, no power (power supply turned off or bridge out breaking the microswitch) and the pin pops up to coupler height.

#18

One possibility that would work for both track and battery power would be to have a long plank, wood or plastic, between the rails (similar to a road crossing) pivoted at the far end and the end near the bridge spring loaded to lift an engine off the tracks, letting the wheels spin if the bridge is not in place.

Lowering the bridge would bring the plank down below the rails by means of appropriately designed linkage. It might be possible to eliminate the spring if a counter balanced weight and levers system could push the heaviest engine up off the rails.

Advantages: no sudden stop hitting something place on the track; no need for rail cutting or derails with possible damage to equipment; no need for electrical contacts, plugs, etc.

Disadvantages: not effective for double headers or pushers; getting the thing to work, and to work every time.

Art