Large Scale Central

LGB Onboard DCC Decoders - Programming Tip

General Discussion
#1

I just completed programming some CVs on my newly purchased LGB 22892 DC/DCC Sound Sumpter Valley Articulated Mallet. Historically, the Sumpter Valley Railroad bought both the #50 and #51 mallets from the Uintah Railway in late 1930s, reconfigured them by removing the loco water tanks, and then operated them with tenders attached. This LGB Sumpter Valley model uses the basic design of their LGB Uintah loco, both produced by the original LGB (Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk) in the early 2000 timeframe with an onboard DCC decoder technology built into the main circuit board by Massoth - Germany. Today I was frustrated trying to program three CVs (CVs 1, 52, and 54) when I received the “check mark” on my Massoth Navigator Wireless Controller which means the CV was successfully changed…but the loco didn’t “jump” back and forth as normal when I pushed the OK button. So I Read the CV, it still had the original CV value…didn’t work. I tried it a second time, same result. Frustration!

So, then I remembered the process recommended by Soundtraxx for their Tsunami2 decoders…de-power and re-power the locomotive/decoder after pushing the OK button. So, I unplugged my Piko Central Station that powers my programming track, and re-plugged it. Tried programming the errant CVs again, and bingo, it worked! So, if you have a problem trying to program one of these older LGB locos with the onboard DCC decoders designed into the main circuit board, de-power and re-power the loco/decoder, and try again. This is especially true if using a non-Massoth DCC system. In fact, I had problems using my Massoth DCC system two years ago trying to program CVs with Soundtraxx Tsunami2 sound decoders until I watched one of their help videos and saw the techie raise one side up of the loco he was programming…he did it immediately after each CV setting. I tried it and bingo, it worked!

Tom

#2

Lots of European and older decoders need power interrupted after programming, the micro needs to re-read the flash or something…

I hope you just cut the power to the programming track, and did not reboot the entire system.

Greg

#3

Greg Elmassian said:

Lots of European and older decoders need power interrupted after programming, the micro needs to re-read the flash or something…

I hope you just cut the power to the programming track, and did not reboot the entire system.

Greg

Greg - In this instance, I did pull the power plug on the Piko Central Station. This was after I was able to program CV1 address, but none of the other two CVs. So, after I restarted the Massoth Central Station and my wireless Navigator, I was then able to program the other two CVs without a problem. Apparently all the other attempts to program all three CVs caused the decoder to lock up. So, the restart then worked. So, what you’re suggesting is after I was able to program the CV1 address change, I should just lift one side of the loco’s wheels up off the track and then down to de-power and then re-power the decoder, and then go on the the next CV program change.

For the Soundtraxx Tsunami2 decoders, that’s exactly the process I use to successfully program the CVs using my Massoth system.

Thanks

Tom

#4

Yep, it’s the decoder that is not responding, not your “central station” (NMRA defines it as a command station, but Piko made by Massoth who made LGB MTS named it central station).

Not necessarily a lockup, but maybe not completion of the programming task. Many European DCC components say to even wait one minute before applying power again, true for really old stuff I guess.

Greg

#5

I did not have this issue and I have programmed dozens of LGB decoders. I believe it can be the programming current of the central station/command station. Our Zimo systems do not have this issue. Yes systems, I have the MX1 and MX10.

#6

Dan Pierce said:

I did not have this issue and I have programmed dozens of LGB decoders. I believe it can be the programming current of the central station/command station. Our Zimo systems do not have this issue. Yes systems, I have the MX1 and MX10.

Dan - In my case programming the LGB Sumpter Valley with a Piko Command Station, I’m inclined to agree with Greg. Massoth made the onboard decoder in the LGB loco along with the Piko CS, so I don’t think the programming current was the issue. For my customer with the NCE DCC system who couldn’t program the Massoth XL power decoder I had installed in his LGB F7A diesel, yes, the current was an issue.

Tom

#7

Whenever you have the spare time, try programming with the NCE system either in register mode, or lift the wheels after a programming command, I think you will see it works.

The first time I used the Train-Li switch machines with the built in decoder I could not program them at all, and the NCE system was blamed. Then I read that most European systems interrupted the programming track power briefly after issuing the command.

I then used my NCE system and after giving the command, broke the connection and it worked! So clearly it was not a current issue in that case.

I have the Soundtraxx PTB100 programming booster, and it’s been a rare case when that was needed, usually in the case where there was some other load across the rails and I was programming with the decoder in the loco.

Live and learn on this stuff.

Greg

#8

Can you enlighten us DCC challenged folks as to what the different modes are/mean.

#9

https://dccwiki.com/Decoder_Programming#Service_Mode_Programming_Methods

sorry typing with one finger

#10

Ok, that makes sense. My Digitrax Zephyr says it supports all 3 modes, but I don’t see where I could change the modes. I had an issue with programming a BLI locomotive and thought maybe it was because the mode was wrong. Now I don’t think so.

The issue was I programmed the cab number. When I read it back, it read back correctly, but the locomotive would only run on address 0003. I found out that I had to set bit 5 to 1 on another CV to turn on the 4 digit address. Once I did that, it worked. That is the only locomotive/decoder that I had to do that with.

#11

Yep, the NCE system has the direct CV programming, but also it has nice menu-guided setups that will ask what you want for the short address, the long address, which to enable, and if you want DC mode… it handles the CVs you need (1, 17, 18, 29) nicely.

As much as I needed certain features only Zimo provided, the user friendliness and the extensive help on the NCE is something I really miss. They do a great job, and it’s probably the reason it is the #1 system for clubs.

Greg

#12

Funny. All the clubs (that use DCC) at the local train shows here use Digitrax. The NMRA Division 2, The South Hills Model Railroad Club, The S scalers, the other HO group that never has their organization name posted, and both N scale groups. Maybe its just a “Burgh thing”.

The Digitax prompts aren’t as good as menus, but it does give me the choice of 2 or 4 digit addressing. I just don’t know why the BLI decoder needed more “fussing”, whereas the digitrax decodes I use, and the Bachmann “value added” sound decoder, take their 4 digit address with no problems.

#13

The NCE does 2 or 4 digit, and easily, did someone tell you it didn’t? you just enter the number of the loco, and then press enter.

If it is an address that can exist in both 2 and 4 digits, you preface the number with a zero as I remember. It’s really simple and then running 2 digit and 4 digit locos at the same time is easy. (we are using this language that is common, but it’s actually short addresses up to 127 and long addresses from 1 to 9999)

On the BLI vs Digitrax decoders, and 2 vs. 4, and more fussing I’d like to hear more, you had issues setting a BLI decoder to a long address?

Greg

#14

Greg, I have never used an NCE system, so I don’t believe I said anything about what it will and won’t do.

The issue was I programmed the cab number. When I read it back, it read back correctly, but the locomotive would only run on address 0003. I found out that I had to set bit 5 to 1 on another CV to turn on the 4 digit address. Once I did that, it worked. That is the only locomotive/decoder that I had to do that with.

I had to add 32 to CV 29 so that Extended address MSB and LSB would work.

The previous BLI locomotive that I programmed an address into, I used my DCC++ system with JMRI. I didn’t have to go set CV 29, it just worked, just like it was supposed to.

Its just odd, to me anyway, that I would have to change a separate CV to get the address to work, when the read back tells me the address is the address I programmed into it. So far I have only had to do that with my new BLI Pacific, so maybe its a BLI quirk, or its a quirk with their latest product.

#15

I read this: “The Digitax prompts aren’t as good as menus, but it does give me the choice of 2 or 4 digit addressing.”

as a comparison to the NCE we were talking about…

Otherwise, I was not sure of why you brought up this feature standard on most better DCC systems.

Anyway, yes, you need to set that bit in CV29 in order to change from short addressing to long addressing.

When you used JMRI to set a long address, the JMRI system changed that bit in CV29 for you…

If you read the spec, you will see that the decoder can have 3 different addresses in it, and you can select which of the 3 to use… there is a reason there is a “switch” between long and short addresses… to allow you to have 2 different addresses on your loco… for several reasons…

Greg