Large Scale Central

LGB of America & The German LGB?

The new issue of Model Railroader shows a photo of the LGB of America’s Amtrac cars. The caption indicates they are for sale not just fodder for modeler’s imaginations.

Clearly the manufacturer is credited as LGB of America.

Ok, how can LGB as a company that is in court litigation split itself with one portion in financial mishap and the other across the ocean making products using the LGB trademark, brand name, or whatever you wish to identify as LGB? All of this while LGB, as a trademark, logo, or whatever may be the title persuassive to either side, is being debated as to owns what?

Is it possible, in the strangest of thinking, the German adjudicators have implicitly decided – or decided NOT to decide – that there are really TWO LGB companies – one in the West and the other back in Germany hosting the comany’s financial problems?

Meanwhile, LGB of America has produced a Genesis (being sold?), a Forney, and now the Amtrac cars. Do these products have stamped on the belly of the frame LGB as the producer? Is the producer noted as LGB of America?

So what is the outcome most desired by those of us who want, use, and buy Western-style locos and rolling stock? Maybe one arm conquers and secures the West as LGB of America and the other secures for hobbyists the historically desired European loco and rolling stock.

This saga is continually worthy of a report.

Ok, HJ, you are on for the latest!

Thanks to all for reading.

Wendell

Wendell Hanks said:
The new issue of Model Railroader shows a photo of the LGB of America's Amtrac cars. The caption indicates they are for sale not just fodder for modeler's imaginations.

Clearly the manufacturer is credited as LGB of America.

Ok, how can LGB as a company that is in court litigation split itself with one portion in financial mishap and the other across the ocean making products using the LGB trademark, brand name, or whatever you wish to identify as LGB? All of this while LGB, as a trademark, logo, or whatever may be the title persuassive to either side, is being debated as to owns what?

Is it possible, in the strangest of thinking, the German adjudicators have implicitly decided – or decided NOT to decide – that there are really TWO LGB companies – one in the West and the other back in Germany hosting the comany’s financial problems?

Meanwhile, LGB of America has produced a Genesis (being sold?), a Forney, and now the Amtrac cars. Do these products have stamped on the belly of the frame LGB as the producer? Is the producer noted as LGB of America?

So what is the outcome most desired by those of us who want, use, and buy Western-style locos and rolling stock? Maybe one arm conquers and secures the West as LGB of America and the other secures for hobbyists the historically desired European loco and rolling stock.

This saga is continually worthy of a report.

Ok, HJ, you are on for the latest!

Thanks to all for reading.

Wendell


Wendell,

On the assignment of producership by Model Railroader: It isn’t the first and it won’t be the last time that they get things wrong! Typical example the “Genesis” which was listed as 1:22.5 scale. Kalmbach’s Terry Thompson commented that with “We publish what the manufacturers provide”. Perfectly believable, but far from logical if one is in the model railroading business.
Of course the Kalmbach Group also uses fairly vague descriptions when it comes to dimensions relative to scales. Not to mention instances when Anatole Mallet becomes a Belgian, even though he was Swiss. But those are just minor details, which only a nit-picking Swiss would notice. :wink: :slight_smile: It’s either that or I should get a life and not read the Kalmbach publications so carefully!

That there are different opinions on the ownership of various items which were running as property of Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk OHG is quite obvious from the shot across the bow which Hermann Schöntag fired in reply to the press release by Tony Castellano regarding LGBoA owning various and sundry. Note: Interesting that the press release was issued by Castellano, not by Dave Buffington. :wink:

My guess - that’s all it is! - would be that the situation will be ready for illumination once someone assumes full proprietor ship of the former Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk OHG. An additional guess: Dr. Goede will provide “someone” with a precisely clarified list of all assets. And the next guess is: the creditors will get an updated list of those assets (if it needs updating!) and any prospective or current bidder will act on the basis of that information. Depending on the assets listed there could be action/reaction from the creditors, as I mentioned in another post, the new insolvency laws put the banks firmly in the driver’s seat. And since the banks were the “stumbling block” for continued business as usual at EPL, this bears watching.

I’m waiting for more News out of Nürnberg or somewhere in Germany. There is a lot of scuttlebutt from all the different directions - reliable sources and “reliable sources” - but it’s all “I know this from so and so, but you can’t quote him” or “This is what he said, unfortunately it’s off the record”. BTW LGBoA not issuing a statement at this time falls into the same category.

You know if I would be on a trip to Germany and would meet with all the different people, I would call it a “very positive trip” if I could get assurances that

a) yes, we’re still interested in cooperation

b) no, for the time being, we won’t sue you

37+ years in North America’s business environment have taught me that the NA bluster doesn’t fare all that well in the European climate. Has been proven time and again in many different industries. :wink: :slight_smile:

Time will tell!

Wendell:
Was this an ad or a product review / anouncement? The editorial deadline for either was probably something like 60 days ago, possibly more, so this doesn’t present anything new. Last time I checked, Kalmbach Publishing wasn’t listed as a principle in LGB’s bankruptcy proceedings, so their editorial pronouncements have zero meaning.

There has been no public announcement nor reference to the filing of any “litigation” regarding LGB. The company is simply in the equivalent of US bankruptcy protection. An appointed trustee is trying to maximize the value of ‘the company’. His duty is primarily to those who are owed money, such as trade creditors, banks and other financial entities. Employees, owners and customers are at the far end of the line, in about that order. In the US, bankruptcy trustees can and frequently do, divide the company, sell any parts (including trade marks, IP rights, property, tools and inventory) deemed necessary or desirable, sell or close the whole company, and generally do whatever is necessary to make the financial pie as whole as possible. Again, this is NOT “litigation”, and IF some part was sold (or even given away), it could be a perfectly normal outcome of a bankruptcy. I am not an expert on German BK law, but I’ll bet it’s very similar to the US. The major difference probably being the amount of non-financial influence applied by the German trade unions and local government entities.

As to the use of the LGB logo on ‘new’ products, these cars and locos you mention were designed a year or two ago. The dies were cut over 6 months ago. The actual items were manufactured several months ago. Whether the logo is used does not have a thing to do with what may or may not be at current issue, much less being decided in the current time frame. The only things that count are the actual contemporary announcements from the principles, especially the bankruptcy trustee. He runs the show. Since the last announced deal appears to have fallen short of expectations, I would imagine the trustee will be reticent to make another “. . . LGB is sold . . .” announcement until the color of money is seen.

We were recently treated to the ‘public release’ of a note from David Buffington to his employees. It said nothing except that he had a good trip to Germany. It did act to defuse any “. . . Buffington made a sneak trip to Germany . . .” conspiracy postings that were bound to show up. I thought David’s announcment was senior executive perfect, revealing absolutely nothing about his or LGB’s business, topics discussed, proposals made, nor outcomes projected. Just the positive “. . . I had a good trip to Germany . . .” That’s the way good business is conducted.

So since MR’s text brings no new or even current information, the German bankruptcy trustee seems to be continuing with his commission, and there are no new announced developments, what of “This saga is continually worthy of a report”?

As far as wanting “. . . Western-style locos and rolling stock”, there are several manufacturers with product on the shelf (including both LGB and LGBoA), a couple of new manufacturers who have announced product (including LGBoA) and more certain to come. This, regardless of LGB’s fate. Just buy from them.

Note that there has never been any ‘official’ response to the apparent public disconnect (via conflicting ads and written statements) over who owns the world wide LGB trademark rights. Perhaps there isn’t the great disconnect the crystal gazers and nay-sayers wish for? Perhaps any actual problem has been addressed and solved? Perhaps lots, but nothing that is worthy of a report, because there is nothing to report. All the imaginary dividing up of LGB, made up projections concerning the outcome of LGB’s financial problems, future ownershop, on-going operations, and other mind games people are playing are not going to have any influence on my enjoyment of the hobby.

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers

Jerry Bowers said:
............................................

We were recently treated to the ‘public release’ of a note from David Buffington to his employees. It said nothing except that he had a good trip to Germany. It did act to defuse any “. . . Buffington made a sneak trip to Germany . . .” conspiracy postings that were bound to show up. I thought David’s announcment was senior executive perfect, revealing absolutely nothing about his or LGB’s business, topics discussed, proposals made, nor outcomes projected. Just the positive “. . . I had a good trip to Germany . . .” That’s the way good business is conducted.


Jerry all other things being equal, :wink: this sentence

D Buffington said:
............................................

However, we are not waiting for action there. We are proceeding quickly with our own LGB production plans.


is just a bit more than the standard “revealing absolutely nothing” statement. :wink: :slight_smile:

PS No update on any location where I would check!

HJ:

Sorry, slight mis-statement on my part.

Make that “. . . revealing absolutely nothing new . . .”

LGBoA’s previous statements announcing their 0-6-0 said they were quickly moving ahead with their own production. Not certain about the exact language.

Point’s the same: Nothing new there.

Happy RRing,

Jerry