Well, well, well Marvin.
There were actually pictures of the wear on certain German fora, pictures taken by the owners who paid for said engines, not by someone who runs promotional material provided by the distributor. Which reminds me don’t they (LGBoA/Slivergate) provide the spareparts, too?? 
I’m sure PIKO wheelsets are available if need be. It’s a rash generalization to say that all wheelsets will wear out because someone posts it on a German forum. I have 2 piko locos and haven’t experienced any problems- should I post a picture of their wheels?
Marvin- Since you collect and buy/sell on evilbay, do you even run your trains to show any wear?
Mike- You aren’t suposed to hate anybody.
However, if your “blanket” statement is that this is a great starter set, even though it isn’t out yet, what difference is there between that and folks saying “let’s wait to pass judgement”, or, “gee, other engines from said manufacturer show wheel wear”.
I remember almost 12 years ago when the Shays came out, there were “experts” who were absolutely convinced there were no issues.
Went to the extreme of modifying postings to e-mail groups, sending said posts off to the manufacturer, in an attempt to get the messenger stifled.
Yet, when all was said and done, the percentage of folks with “issues” was actually WORSE than reported.
On automobiles, how many times have you read glowing reports in trade publications about new vehicles, that a year later they probably wish they hadn’t written?
Let’s see what it’s like.
mike omalley said:Hang them all and let God sort them out. :D
These LGB/Piko/Silvergate threads are so hard to follow. I can never figure out who I'm supposed to be hating and why. I'm standing here with a length of rope and a noose and I'm just confused
mike omalley said:
These LGB/Piko/Silvergate threads are so hard to follow. I can never figure out who I'm supposed to be hating and why. I'm standing here with a length of rope and a noose and I'm just confused
John Joseph Sauer said:Mike,
Ask Herr Mueller- he's the manager of that depatment.
They’re not hard to follow, all you need is a salt shaker by your computer.
Marvin,
Hate is such a waste - so much energy for nothing! Dislike and contempt are much more efficient; one gets to concentrate on the factual, instead of consumed by the imagined.
BTW I think the new starter sets from PIKO are a good match for their toy-like track geometry. It’s the destilled product of the KISS principle!
“So it goes” Kurt Vonnegut
John Joseph Sauer said:
PJ said:
Curmudgeon said:
Probably not the best way to compare. You think the Yugo was a good entry into the car market? Lada? Fiat? Vega? Corvair? General Misunderstanding 5.7 dismal? I could come up with quite a list. However, those that prove themselves with the test of time, well, that’s a different story. I’m still driving my flatheads. The Jaguar runs fine (and now actually stops!). I have always avoided first-year-models in automobiles, yet will buy a first-year model when they are 5-10 years old, and I KNOW what the issues are. Think about it. Think about a certain Mikado. Or Shay. Or 2-4-0. I am in a position, have been for a LONG time, where I do not need anything for the railroad. I will wait. NOTHING is absolutely necessary. I’ll wait to see what pans out.Hey, you are right on track, like you i never buy anything in the first year. By the way, in German forums it was possible to read that Piko engine wheels do not last, due to the cast material. Do not get me wrong, i love the fact that Piko is producing new items, but what i have seen so far is not what i would buy. think global Pius
PIKO G locomotives have been tried and proven. The Taurus and BR218 are robust, well designed Garden locomotives. No reason to expect anything else from them in a starter set! You might want to contact Members of the Florida Garden Railway Society. They ran the PIKO locos at Epcot’s flower and Garden Festival for 8 weeks non-stop . The Epcot German pavilion layout runs PIKO locos exclisively and they run 7days a week / eight hours a day. David Wenrich of the FGRS takes care of the trains and swears by them. Many of my friends who are members of the FGRS said the same. That’s from the horses mouth - not forum “talk”.
HEY JJ Sauer, having a engine running for eight weeks is a short time, if you have engines for 8 years in service, it is definitive possible to see how well they are built. here a few pictures which should show what i stated. The pics should be self explaining, think global Pius
(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2569/23062008pikoantriebdo7.jpg)
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/523/23062008pikoantrieb3qd7.jpg)
(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/7047/23062008pikoantrieb7qy2.jpg)
Hi All,
JJ is a gentleman I met at Epcot during the Flower and Garden Festival and let me know about this discussion and I thought I would chime in. By the way, that is actually his real name, or at least that is what he told me it was. Hey, maybe I actaully met the infamous Marvin and didnt even know it! LOL
In reference to the starter sets, LSOL.com just wrote a nice article about the sets and the other new offerings from Piko. There are also pictures of all three of the sets (including the UP-my favorite- & the NYC).
Now onto the more recent topic: quality of Piko. I am heading off to college and stopped working at Epcot just a few weeks ago. I did however use the Piko locos on the Germany Railraod for several months. Now, there is something you must realize about this railroad: it runs from 11am to maybe 8 to 11pm depending on the day. Oh, and most of the time the custodians dont bother to bring the trains in during the rain either. This summer in Florida we have been getting quite intense thunderstorms, dumping inches and inches of water, about 4 or 5 times a week. And then you have to deal with those kindly tourist who like to dump slushies and gummy bears on the trains and try to derail them with masks, rocks, and COINS! I like to think of this railroad as a torture chamber!
I probably shouldnt say anything about this, but I think it may be of some value. Just because Epcot has a relationship with Silvergate Distributors does not mean that Epcot gets anything for free. Silvergate is merely a sponsored supplier of both goods and services. Epcot purchases every loco, part, piece of track, accessories, etc from Silvergate. Nothing in free in life, right?
I love the Piko locos. I had personal experience with Taurus and BR218 fro several months. Physically the Piko motorblocks lookin very, very similar to comparable LGB blocks. The wheels are very nice in my opinion. They are blackened and have different cast in detail (on the side of the wheel) depending on the loco. I noticed wheel wear on the locos, but not anything unexpected given the amount of run time they had. I noticed that the pictures posted by PJ showed a white residue. I dont quite know what it is, but it showed up on the locos I ran too. I actually think it is a result of the engine being left outside in the rain, and the then water leaves some kind of residue on the metal from the chemicals that are put into our water.
Just to show I am not a total suckup to Silvergate and Piko, I will state the downfalls of the models I have seen so far: As stated before, sometimes white residue can be left on the wheels. However, I would imagine some rubbing alcohol would clear it up. The other downfall is the way in which the wires are connected to the powerblocks as pictured by PJ. I It seems that the last roduction of Taurus and BR218 paint schemes have improved this. The problem can be cleared up by squeezing the slide on clamps (I dont really know what they are called) with a pair of pliers to make sure they stay attached to the powerblocks.
Overall, I am very satisfied with the Piko locos. Piko still has yet to decide what kind of electronics they would like to supply thier locos with. So, right now they are simply direct wired. This works out well at Disney since it does not “fry” the engine when it gets wet. It is also a good move in the consumer market since once a system is picked, it can easily be wired in with just 8 wired. A very simple job. I have heard some ideas about what “guts” Piko may put into thier locos in the future, but I will just let you guys make up rediculous rumors and spread them as truth. LOL The locos are very easy to take apart. The screws are easily accessible and do not require the strength of God to reassemble like some other locos. They are also very durable locos. Shhh! Dont tell anybody, but I dropped one off the end of the golfcart at Disney. Other than some light scratches, no one has ever found out about it. It did not break or anything!
For a large, value priced, strong pulling, fairly accurate, German engineered, German made model, I give the 2 currently available Piko locos my seal of approval.
Here is a link to some pictures that I took that have been posted on the Piko website (you may have to past it itno that address bar):
http://piko.de/e/we_about_us/NEWS/2008/e_DisneyWorld.php
And a link to the list of new products:
http://piko.de/e/News_Delivery/2008/e_TLN_Herbstneuheiten08.php
-David
Just to add another thing:
So far I am pleased with the Pikos. In my opinion they are also a bit stronger than similar LGB locos, but are just as quiet. I can only imagine that Pikos future offerings will be of similar or, most likely, better quality. I mean you just cant go wrong with German engineering or manufacturing. (Said like a true future engineer - of course of German ancestry).
-David
You can also check out a video of the Locos here: (forgive the poor quality)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQg8DH_UkC0
-David
David Wenrich said:
You can also check out a video of the Locos here: (forgive the poor quality)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQg8DH_UkC0
-David
The photographs of the Piko locomotive wheels and electrics shows that this loco has received a lot of punishment that many would not subject their equipment to. This loco is obviously stored and run in poor weather conditions. The oxide deposit on the wheels is seen on other manufacturer’s wheels when left exposed and is a result of a cast material ‘returning to its natural elements’, much like steel turning to rust (iron oxide). Remember Zamac from the past (1950’s/60’s). The electrical photograph shows that the operator has not taken the sensible precaution of drying the electricals after exposure to moisture. What toy is going to take this amount of punishment?
I am surprised about David’s comment as to how quiet the drive is as earlier release reports stated the Piko drive block was coarse and sounded very noisy. Maybe a little runtime does wonders for the drive. I particularly like the Piko Taurus, especially in its lease colour schemes and the 218 diesel in blue/white. Both very attractive, although I really cannot see myself purchasing, as a more desirable loco would be the superceded V200 or V220 just released from Hungary and a rake of German standard gauge coaches.
In so far as Mike’s comment as to which side of the fence one needs to be or does one need to hate someone because he differs in opinion, well Mike is an intelligent man and he knows that a difference of opinion does not need to become an emotional issue. When one sees that the subject has become an emotive issue then one could be tempted to exploit the emotions instilled. I simply take it as two sides in a debate. There is no winner and no loser. Each has formed their own opinion and only the future will see who is right and who is not right. Until then, I will continue to enjoy the discussion and the bravado, but then I know that I am right. Even so, I still encourage the ‘other side’ to have their say as it is only fair to encourage and ‘support’ them in their misery and misfortune.
Tim,
I don’t wish to sound negative, but be advised that Märklin has changed the gears in the Hungarian V200 and V220 to less than rave reviews.
Jack Barton said:
Tim,I don’t wish to sound negative, but be advised that Märklin has changed the gears in the Hungarian V200 and V220 to less than rave reviews.
Good thing you don’t write for a living.
¿Usted preferiría español?
Porque, no.
Hable Esperanto?
Geen Spaans Jack!
Jack Barton said:
Tim,I don’t wish to sound negative, but be advised that Märklin has changed the gears in the Hungarian V200 and V220 to less than rave reviews.
Do you have factual proof of that or are you using your usual translators to gather “facts”? There are quite a few things amiss on those V200 and 220, but there are other indications on that gearing. One of them points to the same mess that the EPL 2-4-0 starter engines were suffering from. In this case the possibility of using just two screws for the gearbox cover instead of the six and the motor being able to torque far enough to have the worm on the axle skip the wormgear. Stripping it in the process. Sounds familiar!
BTW it has been stated that the gears have the same diameter and only the horny monkeys with the football would be able to come up with a new pitch diameter given that. But you know all that, don’t you? :lol: :lol:
I’m sure you also read that the Production chief is migrating to Switzerland. Add that to the attempt of getting a 20% rollback on gross wages from the employees and it is a small surprise that there are problems including turnouts that have jumper strips that are so flimsily attached they are loose by the time they reach the customer.
My advise to the German customers: “Don’t bother just the dealers, raise hell with LGB customer service in Nürnberg.” Did Google translate that properly???
Tim Brien said:
The photographs of the Piko locomotive wheels and electrics shows that this loco has received a lot of punishment that many would not subject their equipment to. This loco is obviously stored and run in poor weather conditions. The oxide deposit on the wheels is seen on other manufacturer's wheels when left exposed and is a result of a cast material 'returning to its natural elements', much like steel turning to rust (iron oxide). Remember Zamac from the past (1950's/60's). The electrical photograph shows that the operator has not taken the sensible precaution of drying the electricals after exposure to moisture. What toy is going to take this amount of punishment?…
Curmudgeon said:David Wenrich said:
You can also check out a video of the Locos here: (forgive the poor quality)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQg8DH_UkC0
-David
of the locos or the video?
HJ: I was just testing and having fun. I wanted to doublehead because the guests really enjoy it. Also, the Epcot RR is far from a flat circuit. It has several very steep grades on tight curves, so the second engine is not that bad of an idea.
Curm: Obviously I was referrering to the quality of the video. The layout runs pretty good with all that Bridgewerks power.
Why are you guys so negative and critical? You can say what you want about commercial products available on the market. Love em, hate em. I may not agree, but it does not offend me. It does offend me when fellow members of a hobby community such as this are flat out rude to one another. There are proper ways to disagree with other people or give advice. But giving advice that aims to make another person look like an idiot is just plain mean.
In my opinion, the manner in which you 2 handle yourselves is flat out disgusting. I watch this forum now and then, but resist posting because I always wind up getting so discouraged, frustrated, and infuriated by the same few inconsiderate personalities over and over again. I just find it interesting that I, a teenager, can handle myself in a more mature manner than some of the people on this forum. Like I said, its just flat out disappointing. Well, I was willing to give this forum one last try with this topic, but I think I am tired of it now. I just cant believe that people who share in such a great hobby that is intended to create fun and friendship between one another, can create such hostility, discouragement, and even crude name calling. I dont want to be treated in that way and I dont want to see other people treated that way either. Well, I will post on other forums from now on. Sorry to say, because there does some to be some good people here.
-David
