Large Scale Central

Let's start up a company!

General Discussion
#1

Let us get away from the LGB, socket’s, and all that other stuff we rant and rave about.
Here is an unofficial poll.

This pure fantasy. If all of a sudden you had a gazzilion bucks to start up a large scale manufacturing company.

  1. What scale would you choose for narrow gauge and standard US gauge? Using the existing track available.
  2. Would you produce plastic, brass, or cast metal?
  3. What would be the first US narrow gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.
  4. What would be the first US standard gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.
  5. What would be the first US Narrow gauge piece of rolling stock?
  6. What would be the first US standard gauge piece of rolling stock?
  7. Would you repaint and repaint rolling stock, or manufacture limited editions.?
  8. Would you paint locomotives in road names that the prototype didn’t even have on their roster?
  9. Would you make starter sets without track or power supplies.
  10. Would you make track?
  11. Would you make power supplies?
  12. Would you produce locomotives for simple and easy battery conversion?
  13. Would you produce locomotives with all the electronics needed for track power or DCC?
  14. Or offer locomotives with options, such as simple ready for Batt/RC and sound, or the full package?
  15. Would you offer kits of your products, undecorated, with instructions?
  16. Would you distribute your products yourself out of a warehouse, using Internet and magazines?
  17. Would you wholesale to a distributor to sell your products to stores?
  18. Would you offer rolling stock equipped with quality metal wheels and pads for mounting KD’s?

Please feel free to add anything I might have overlooked.
jb

#2

1: I have to throw you a curve here as I’d choose 1:24 on proper scale track if I had my druthers (that’d be 1-1/2" gauge for 3 foot gauge, just under 2-1/2" for standard). Yeh i know, totally uncompatible. But then…that’s me! :wink:
2: Plastic for superstructures and cast metal for mechanisms.
3: C-16 or C-19 (DRGW)
4: Sierra RR 2-8-0 #28 for west coast, Ma&PA # 26 2-8-0 for east coast.
5: Pacific Coast Ry caboose that Bachmann announced and never produced.
6: Sierra RR wood caboose to go with #28 and Ma&Pa caboose.
7: For cast I would definately repaint for different roadnames to keep cost reasonable. Compromise…!
8: No but I would offer unlettered versions.
9: Probably not sets.
10: Would have to for 1-1/2" gauge as well as 1:24 standard and perhaps some dual gauge.
11: No
12: Absolutely!
13: No, that would be up to the buyer. No need to increase prices for something that many wouldn’t want.
14: Optional connections for either battery or DCC included with easy installation instructions and conventional track power “ready to go”.
15: Don’t know.
16: Probably the best bet.
17: Would depend on production volume.
18: ALL equipment would come with metal wheels and be Kadee compatible.

19: Additional: For standard gauge I would look into producing very basic USRA locos ready to run with special detail kits to allow them to represent everything from UP to Frisco to GN to Reading to Southern, etc. Plastic parts in a separate bag that would include the most obvious things such as headlight type and special insignia (like Pennsy keystone or NYC oval, etc.) that could be glued on by the buyer. Extra piping or special fittings not usually found on prototype would be left to the modeler himself. USRA types included switchers, mallets and many other wheel arrangements.

I probably wouldn’t produce diesels as there would be more steam power than could be produced in fifty years.

#3

Richard,
I agree with 1/24! I’ve thought of that often.
You would have to manufacture track of both gauges and dual gauge.
No reviewer could say wrong scale/gauge combination.
However, I doubt any present user would rip up and sell off their equipment to change.
You would have to find all new customers.
We should prolly cater to existing hobbyists.
jb

#4
Quote:
1. What scale would you choose for narrow gauge and standard US gauge? Using the existing track available.
I'd go with 1/2" scale (1:24), and provide properly gauged track.
Quote:
2. Would you produce plastic, brass, or cast metal?
Plastic, with metal wheels and mechanisms.
Quote:
3. What would be the first US narrow gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.
Don't know. I'm partial towards the Nevada Northern's ten wheeler, so maybe that.
Quote:
4. What would be the first US standard gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.
Don't know. Probably whatever is the most likely to be seen on a modern rr.
Quote:
5. What would be the first US Narrow gauge piece of rolling stock?
I'd start with three or four basic freight types - boxcar, hopper, tank, flat.
Quote:
6. What would be the first US standard gauge piece of rolling stock?
Ditto.
Quote:
7. Would you repaint and repaint rolling stock, or manufacture limited editions.? 8. Would you paint locomotives in road names that the prototype didn't even have on their roster?
Undecided.
Quote:
9. Would you make starter sets without track or power supplies.
Only if there was a market for it.
Quote:
10. Would you make track? 11. Would you make power supplies?
Yes and yes
Quote:
12. Would you produce locomotives for simple and easy battery conversion?13. Would you produce locomotives with all the electronics needed for track power or DCC? 14. Or offer locomotives with options, such as simple ready for Batt/RC and sound, or the full package?
I'm not an electronics guy so I there may be complications I'm unaware of. But as I see it, I think the most likely solution would be to have very basic wiring - leads from the motor, leads from the lights, leads from an axle sensor for chuff - that can easily be plugged into/tapped into. Sell it set up for simple track power but make it easy to add sound, r/c, batteries, DCC, etc.
Quote:
15. Would you offer kits of your products, undecorated, with instructions? 16. Would you distribute your products yourself out of a warehouse, using Internet and magazines? 17. Would you wholesale to a distributor to sell your products to stores?
Don't know.
Quote:
18. Would you offer rolling stock equipped with quality metal wheels and pads for mounting KD's?
Yes.

Of course, this is all with the proviso of a “gazillion bucks” to spend. Real life is undoubtably not so accommodating.

#5

I agree with virtually 100% of Richard’s reply list and his additional thoughts.

IMHO, 1:24 is the most desirable scale for several reasons, but the overriding one is the huge availability of supporting models of everything from machinery to vehicles to buildings to figures, with thousands of accessories. 1:24 is an easy calculation from prototype dimensions and is a good size to fit LS into small spaces while maintaining the WOW factor.

I would also add some transition era 4 axle diesels such as the Baldwin S-12s used on the Sierra Rwy, and / or some EMD SWs, GPs or SDs to Richard’s list.

The Sierra’s short standard gauge passenger / combine cars (#5 & 6) would also make perfect candidates.

And I would probably convert if given the opportunity.

So JB, when will the first product be available? :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :wink:

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#6

We can’t produce only models of prototypes we are partial to. Also we shouldn’t produce a model of a locomotive that has already been produced by the competition, exception being plastic versions of brass models such as Accucraft.

#7

I think the main requirement is to produce decent numbers of each product and have a great distribution network.
We have plenty of “cataloged” items from all the manufacturers that are not “in-stock” anywhere.
Ralph

#8

I think we would have more luck with an institute… The type I shall leave up to you.

#9

JB:

I agree with your comments about sticking to specific prototypes. Most of the locomotives Richard and I suggested either are or are very close to USRA standards, or became the standard of motive power for the time. For example, a mechanism for the Sierra 2-8-0 would accommodate a wide variety of prototypes. Same with the EMD 4 and 6 axle diesels.

I just threw in the SRwy. short coaches because everyone is worried about long passenger equipment on tight LS curves. They represent a prototypical solution to the prototype problem of tight curves.

One would have to produce models of stuff already produced. Something like one of the 1:29 scale large diesels that are currently produced by Aristocraft & USA would obviously be the wrong scale, but also would not run on either of the new track gauges. That means re-producing them in 1:24 and correctly gauged to 2.35". Same with just about everything out there: All would be candidates.

Ain’t fantasy fun!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#10
Rod Hayward said:
I think we would have more luck with an institute...... The type I shall leave up to you.
Hehe! Are you implying that we all should be institutionalized? Put me down. I want a ground floor room in case I fall out a window. :D
#11
Jerry Bowers said:
JB:

I agree with your comments about sticking to specific prototypes. Most of the locomotives Richard and I suggested either are or are very close to USRA standards, or became the standard of motive power for the time. For example, a mechanism for the Sierra 2-8-0 would accommodate a wide variety of prototypes. Same with the EMD 4 and 6 axle diesels.

I just threw in the SRwy. short coaches because everyone is worried about long passenger equipment on tight LS curves. They represent a prototypical solution to the prototype problem of tight curves.

One would have to produce models of stuff already produced. Something like one of the 1:29 scale large diesels that are currently produced by Aristocraft & USA would obviously be the wrong scale, but also would not run on either of the new track gauges. That means re-producing them in 1:24 and correctly gauged to 2.35". Same with just about everything out there: All would be candidates.

Ain’t fantasy fun!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Gee whizz!!! Jerry.

Don’t you know nuffin???
If the proposed Company built small prototypes where would the WOW!!! factor be?

The great unwashed LS’ers will not buy anything unless it has the WOW!!! factor built in.

#12

Being that 1:24 scale models are ~17% bigger than 1:29 and ~31% bigger than 1:32, there should be plenty of WOW factor! That’s one reason I suggested the shorty standard gauge passenger cars.

A 60’ modern boxcar would be ~36" long. I don’t offhand have the dimensions of something like an EMD SD70, but I would guess it to be ~90’ long, or ~45" in 1:24 scale . . . WOW!!

Back to John’s original questions: Other than 1:24, what is the most desirable scale? Why?

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#13

We are stuck with two easily obtainable track widths we can use.

32mm and 45mm. Therefore I vote to use only the correct scale and gauge combination.

Unfortunately that will never be a general happening.

#14

Well after all Tony, who cares as long as it’s “suitable for G gauge”??? :wink:

#15

Yeah Tony, like Richard, I buzzed right past John’s requirement that the new company will only use existing track gauges.

I currently have 1:20 scale equipment running on 45mm and 32mm track. I have hand laid a very small amount of 71mm track. So long as I have to hand spike the 71mm, my standard gauge efforts will remain very limited. I do hope to finish converting a couple of the B’mann GE 45 tonners to SG and have a few SG cars to push around a yard. For my SG, I would much prefer EMD SWs, GPs or Baldwin S12s, but scratch building a couple of those in this lifetime is not going to happen.

I guess the answers to the rest of John’s questions are something along the lines of ‘whatever exists now.’ The status quo just isn’t as much fun as the fantasy of being able to start something new that seems to make more sense than our current mishmash of scales and gauges.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#16
Jerry Bowers said:

A 60’ modern boxcar would be ~36" long. I don’t offhand have the dimensions of something like an EMD SD70, but I would guess it to be ~90’ long, or ~45" in 1:24 scale . . . WOW!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry


45 inches long??? That’s almost 4 feet! I’m not 20 anymore. How am I going to lift that thing to put it on the tracks?

Where can I buy one?

WOW!

madwolf

#17

If i had a gazillion bucks, i would make a top quality model with fantastic factory support for an AFFORDABLE price. Hell, i may even give them away on mondays.

#18

I’m assuming that we’re taking into consideration current market conditions and consumer purchasing patterns…

  1. What scale would you choose for narrow gauge and standard US gauge? Using the existing track available.
    I’d go with 1:20.3 for narrow gauge. While I can buy the arguments for 1:22 or 1:24, they just lack that typical narrow gauge “look” that you get with the 1:20 stuff. Standard gauge is a tough call. While there is 70.6mm track (proper for 1:20.3 standard gauge), the amount of space needed to run it makes it commercially impractical. I’d likely go with two separate product lines, taking a page out of Accucraft’s book. I still don’t see 1:32 having that “wow!” factor, so I think I’d go with 1:29 to match what’s on the market already.

  2. Would you produce plastic, brass, or cast metal?
    Plastic, with die-cast frames, where needed for strength.

  3. What would be the first US narrow gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.
    Steam first; a mogul–something like C&S #9 or W&W #4. Classic lines, small but beefy. Diesel would follow, actually Gas-electric - the EBT’s M-1. We don’t have a good doodlebug yet, and small scale versions have proven quite popular.

  4. What would be the first US standard gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.
    Again, steam first; a light consolidation. Two reasons–first, they were very popular, and I’d do a light version because it would be on the smaller end of the spectrum, and might appeal to the 1:32 crowd. Diesel, an Alco RS-1, then follow with some of the more obscure locos like the BL-2 or CF-7. Again, keep things small so that a larger number of people can run them without needing acres of space to do so.

  5. What would be the first US Narrow gauge piece of rolling stock?
    A board-and-batten 13-window passenger car. Look at any narrow gauge railroad. You can’t have too many different styles of passenger cars.

  6. What would be the first US standard gauge piece of rolling stock?
    60’ wood-side passenger coach, then follow with older generation wood rolling stock.

  7. Would you repaint and repaint rolling stock, or manufacture limited editions.?
    Nothing’s wrong with repaints so long as you’re not doing those to the exclusion of new product. If people are buyin’ it, I’m makin’ it. I’m not about “limited editions.” If the molds are made, they’re getting used.

  8. Would you paint locomotives in road names that the prototype didn’t even have on their roster?
    I’d keep things plausible. I don’t think they have to be 100% prototypic, but I wouldn’t want to see “BNSF” on the tender of a 2-8-0. “Burlington Route,” yes.

  9. Would you make starter sets without track or power supplies.
    No. I’d provide “ideas” for simple consists that the consumer can buy, but I wouldn’t pack them together in a set. LGB did that in their early catalogs. They had illustrations of plausible trains built from their equipment which we used as a guide for what to buy next.

  10. Would you make track?
    No.

  11. Would you make power supplies?
    No.

  12. Would you produce locomotives for simple and easy battery conversion?
    Yes. I think the “super socket” idea is a laudable one, and when all the kinks finally get ironed out as to form and function, will make converting to whatever power system a snap.

  13. Would you produce locomotives with all the electronics needed for track power or DCC?
    Since they’d have the “universal” socket, then yes, though I’m not producing DCC, so the user buys that separately.

  14. Or offer locomotives with options, such as simple ready for Batt/RC and sound, or the full package?
    No. Too much thought. Which versions get which options? We’re mass producing trains here, not customizing automobiles at the dealership. Make it as easy as possible for the consumer to install his/her choice of control and sound and leave it at that.

  15. Would you offer kits of your products, undecorated, with instructions?
    Probably not. The B’mann stuff kits are neat, but most folks who bought those bought them with heavy kitbashing in mind. In my experience, anyone with that level of skill has no qualms about disassembling an already assembled car.

  16. Would you distribute your products yourself out of a warehouse, using Internet and magazines?
    No.

  17. Would you wholesale to a distributor to sell your products to stores?
    Yes. Of course, if I had a gazillion dollars, I’d buy the distributorship, too.

  18. Would you offer rolling stock equipped with quality metal wheels and pads for mounting KD’s?
    Yes.

Later,

K

#19

Premise: This pure fantasy. If all of a sudden you had a gazzilion bucks to start up a large scale manufacturing company.

Results:

  1. What scale would you choose for narrow gauge and standard US gauge? Using the existing track available.

1/20 NG 1/29 SG yes, existing track, dont reinvent the wheel

  1. Would you produce plastic, brass, or cast metal?

Plastic

  1. What would be the first US narrow gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.

WP&Y Class 90 deisel, Darjeeling Class B 0-4-0, Porter 0-6-0T, CLass A Climax, AC Price 16 Wheeler

  1. What would be the first US standard gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.

FP40, Baldwin Sharknose, British Dean Single 4-2-2 Steam Loco, PRR 4-4-2 Atlantic class Steam Loco

  1. What would be the first US Narrow gauge piece of rolling stock?

Steam Derrick Ditcher, side dump ore car, affordable logging disconnects

  1. What would be the first US standard gauge piece of rolling stock?

Milwalkee Road Skytop observation car,

  1. Would you repaint and repaint rolling stock, or manufacture limited editions.?

Yes, a complete line of Playboy centerfold boxcars

  1. Would you paint locomotives in road names that the prototype didn’t even have on their roster?

Thats a grand tradition in model railroading in all scales

  1. Would you make starter sets without track or power supplies.

No, but offer at least a decent loop w/ 1 siding and a BTE controller

  1. Would you make track?

Maybe

  1. Would you make power supplies?

No

  1. Would you produce locomotives for simple and easy battery conversion?

Yes, Plug and Play, including screw terminals on all circuit boards

  1. Would you produce locomotives with all the electronics needed for track power or DCC?

Yes

  1. Or offer locomotives with options, such as simple ready for Batt/RC and sound, or the full package?

Full, electronics are cheap when mass produced

  1. Would you offer kits of your products, undecorated, with instructions?

Yes, thats half the fun

  1. Would you distribute your products yourself out of a warehouse, using Internet and magazines?

No, too much hastle

  1. Would you wholesale to a distributor to sell your products to stores?

Yes,

  1. Would you offer rolling stock equipped with quality metal wheels and pads for mounting KD’s?

Yes, but would not provide Kadees, so buyer has options.

#20
Victor Smith said:
4. What would be the first US standard gauge locomotive you would produce? Steam or Diesel.

… British Dean Single 4-2-2 Steam Loco …


A man after me own heart …

… if I only had a heart …