Large Scale Central

Least-maintenance track for track-powered operation?

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Here’s the plan: less than ten feet of track-powered, back-and-forth automated operation on my little Elk Lumber Co. layout. Don’t worry, Dave, it’s still going to be battery-powered…but I AM going to use the track to move the power through the control unit and to the locomotive:-) I’m going to use a 12V battery and a trolley-style reversing module to run a small mining loco back and forth, dumping small loads of ore into a tipple.

I want to clean it as little as possible, but I’m willing to give it a wipe once in a while. So…what kind of track offers the best, most consistent performance in the Pacific Northwest? Stainless? Nickel-silver? Brass? Not aluminum, I’m certain, since I couldn’t keep 12 feet of aluminum track running smoothly, even indoors!

Thanks!

Tim

#2

Power Transmission.
The only way to go.

Was it Isaac Asimov or Arthur C. Clarke who told us about it?

#3

Was it Isaac Asimov or Arthur C. Clarke who told us about it?

Highways in hiding. Now who wrote that Sci-fi ?

I think I’ve had way tooo sunshine. Another day with 100 degree temp…

Cheers,

#4

Stainless, definitely… of course now people will tell you that your wheels will wear out sooner.

Regards, Greg

#5

as long as you remember the same folks who complained about Aluminum being too “silvery” and not weathering are the same folks who now overlook the Stainless Shine…

Tony is getting you something to work with your existing unit.

TOC

#6
Curmudgeon said:
Tony is getting you something to work with your existing unit.
Hey, my unit works just fine, thanks.

Oh wait, you mean my RCS reversing unit. Oh, well great then! :slight_smile: If I can get the RCS working in a “track-powered” setting, I won’t have to use that other reversing unit I have sitting around.

So stainless is the way to go? Sounds plausible to me.

I’ve got aluminum all over, and don’t worry about the silver shine. If the level of realism on my little layout gets to the point where the shiny rail is the most annoying thing, I’ll paint it like Marshall did.

Anyway, thanks as usual, gents.

#7

Being an associate member of the battery mafia, I didn’t see a need for Stainless Steel although I see many advantages using it if you do track power. I use aluminum track and it looks like the same as when I first installed it on my outdoor table top layout. It was cheeep as Aristo was dumping it and I wonder why? It probably would have been used by more folks if they would have made switches to go with the track. I was thankful when they came out with stainless steel switches so I could fully use the aluminum track but then there is another problem that had to be addressed. Had to adjust and tweek the switches to make them function properly.

All in all, now what was the question?

Oh yeah, Stainless might be your best bet but wait till January if you can for Aristo has their annual ‘buy four boxes and get one box FREE’.

Cheers,

#8

Nah ,
I shall stick with my nickel silver . I get no problems with it .
Mike

#9

Price is no object. I need ten feet of track, max. So I won’t need to buy boxes of Aristo anything, see? Maybe not ever. :slight_smile: Oh wait, I do own some of that Aristo aluminum track, I guess.

Anyway, back to the original question: Nickel-silver has been mentioned. Between nickel-silver and stainless, which will offer the most consistent conductivity with the least cleaning and maintenance? I want scientific studies here, guys!! Clinical data! Controls! Hypotheses! Conclusions! Peer review!

Or just a guy feeling, if that’s what you’ve got.

#10

Tim -

I use Stainless with track power. It’s been outside for 3 years now in the North East US (CT). All I ever need to do is wipe off the mud splash with a soft cloth and pick up the twigs that have fallen on it. Conductivity will not be an issue with a 10’ run. I have nearly 200 feet fed at each end with no conductivity issues.

I had good luck with brass outdoors, but only left it out for 1 summer. It needed quite a bit of cleaning with abrasives when I went to re-use it indoors.

No experience with NS.

Jon

#11

NS still oxidizes, and the oxide is not (as) conductive as advertising says.

You will always find someone who never cleans brass rail, and good for them!

But based on the majority of experience, brass takes cleaning, NS maybe a little less, aluminum even more, and ss none, for track power. Sure, you don’t need to clean anything with battery power, but you want to get power from the rails.

But unless you want to experiment, the only stuff that does not oxidize is stainless. For 10 feet, it seems you want zero maintenance.

Also, if you want ultra reliable operation, deeper flanges and taller rail is the way to go. Many NS suppliers run less than the code 332 height.

To connect to the track, get the new split jaw connectors that are made of stainless steel too.

#12

SS does require cleaning.
Sap, bird sXXt, slug tracks, rain splatter.
I know a guy on (and I mean on) the East Coast who ripped out his SS and re-laid brass.

If you are depending on packet transfer, the best, cleanest SS track outdoor RR is 40% transfer.
Indoors, it’s 90%.
Anything that affects that (dirt, sap, slug tracks, rain splatter) decreases it more.

One of the biggest, one would think, outdoor dcc layouts takes 10-15 minutes to clean the SS, 2 hours on the brass, then the wheels and pickups, and operation degrades as you run.

So, whatever you do, be prepared for something in the way of cleaning.
The best I have heard is you wipe down the SS track.

Remember what I have to do on 1400 feet of aluminum.

#13

Well, now you have heard better… most of my track gets watered by sprinklers every day. Never clean it. Now, I purposefully don’t have track that runs under pine trees, I keep no large birds to poop on the rails, and have no pets. Oh, no slugs or snails, I put snail stuff out, and rain splatter? Well I live where we get rain 2 weeks a year (it seems) but since all track is ballasted or on concrete, no rain splatter.

One thing that is often on the rails is ants, but I just run them over, and I run DCC. They don’t seem to bother anything.

Guess I’m just lucky. The brass track loop in the same location needed cleaning every time I ran unless it was within 24 hours.

Regards, Greg

#14

Yeah, you are.
Try that up where Tim lives.

#15

I think luck must come in to it to a large degree . Stored aircraft show that there are places where little or no corrosion takes place . Equally , desert areas ain’t going to shed many leaves on the track , but may get wind blown sand causing a problem .
In Southern England , we get more sunshine and higher temperatures than the rest of England , Wales or Scotland ,so you would expect track conditions to be fairly benign . This is offset by the fact that when it does rain , the grit lying around gets flung up in the air by the splashes ,It goes as high as the hubs on my Jeep .
What I’m getting at is some track will be better than others in a given situation , so the question of what track to use is not an easy one to answer .
Ideally , the track should only do what it does on the prototype–support and guide the train .
This is where Radio Control scores so well . I can give a fairly unbiased opinion on R/C because I use it ,and use Rail Power on the same layout .
A sensible tactic for the track cleaning problem would be to use the R/C stuff for the first daily run round the track .
Let it push or pull a track cleaner . Make your own track cleaner , a generous plough on the front will clear leaves and can be followed by a polisher if you want ,or even an abrasive . Which I would not recommend . I never abrade my track–which is Nickel Silver–and the result is still a smooth top .I have mentioned before the trick of using Auto Transmission Fluid on the track–I have had no problems with this either .
This is one of those never-ending debates because there is no “right” answer .
I would imagine that between us we could come up with a list of what to use where , why not try that and put it in the Track and Trestles thread as a “sticky”(?) I use a mixture of track , all the main line is Nickel Silver , the sidings are LGB brass . The LGB track I have came by default in LGB sets ,so rather than waste it it goes in the sidings simply because it gets hidden beneath road surfaces and yard concrete . The layout is not at ground level ,so splashing isn’t such a problem .
Cats and squirrels are the main problem ,but I use a "cattle fence"type of deterrent .
The shunters used on this are R/C because I want the track to look dirty there , R/C lets me do this because R/C does not need conductively clean track . Incidentally , the application of Auto Trans fluid makes even this track work , albeit a bit hesitantly at first . I have also found that MTS (LGB DCC) and Lenz both work way better than straight dc , presumably because of the high frequency component of the pulses .
So your choice of track has to take your operating medium into account .
Given the foregong blah , how about it ? Can we produce between us a concensus by state/experience /power/cost/availability and put it in the sticky bit at the top ? Worth a thought or two . I would have thought.

Mike

#16

Duplicated post . Erased by idiot who did it .
Mike

#17

Sigh!

#18

Yes , Tony , quite .
My problem is I see all my mistakes , you only see the ones on here .
Cheers
Mike

#19

Mike has a good point. This is a never ending debate where what works in one location may not work in another. What it comes down to is that one needs to gather as much information as possible and then experiment with local conditions. I did this with a small brass loop outdoors for a year before I started construction with SS.

Getting back to the original question - recall that Tim proposed 10 Ft. of track - period. On such a small layout why would one even consider the cost of R/C in order to eliminate track problems?

As for cleaning SS - I wipe mine down with a dry soft cloth mounted on a pole. 50% of my layout is under pine trees, sap hasn’t stuck in 3 years. Snail trails wipe right off as does any mud splash. I do the same cleaning routine if I’m running battery or track power 'cause I don’t like the sound of grit under the wheels.

Oh yeah, ANTS. I gots them big carpenter ants. They live in the pine trees and use the track as a highway to the house where they are proceeding to eat my roof. They have learned to respect the trains and quickly get off the track when they feel the vibration of a train coming :smiley: The exterminator likes the track 'cause it is an easy place to bait the ants.

JR

#20

Oh, I appreciate all the feedback. But yes, please remember that I am a bonafide member of the “battery mafia” myself. I’m asking questions about track power because I’ve NEVER USED IT OUTDOORS. I only know battery power and aluminum track, and I know it works fine for most everybody around here.

But this is a special case. I have a lot of children visiting, and I want something that just moves itself back and forth periodically, to give them the idea that something’s happening. The idea is to have a little mine locomotive shunting a little tipper car back and forth between the mine and the tipple, loaded on the way from the mine to the tipple, dumping automatically into the tipple, and returning empty to the mine. I’ve got the unloading down, but the loading is still in the design phase. Anyway, I have a lot of experience with this sort of shortline back-and-forth operation, INDOORS, under both track power and battery power. But the track power experience was very unsatifactory, due, I believe, to the aluminum track I was using. That stuff just could not be kept clean enough, INDOORS, to conduct electricity reliably. I would never try it outdoors.

I’m aware that I could do it with an onboard battery and reverser/throttle unit, such as Tony’s excellent RCS Boomerang system. But then I have to use a trail car, due to the small size of the locomotive and rolling stock. And I don’t want to use a trail car…why is that mine loco hauling that box car or tank car or loaded ore car back and forth but not delivering something somewhere? It doesn’t make sense. Or I could use very small batteries, but they might run down too quickly. So…why not run it off a little motorcycle battery hidden inside the mine building, or a 12V feeder from the house? Track power, see? Hence my question here.