Large Scale Central

Learned a little sumtin' about home-brew Li-Ion packs today

If you have been following my Shay restoration thread you know that I needed to separate my 4 cell pack to two locations. This was a good idea, but caused me a bit of grief. Fortunately it tuned out well. I thought I should share what I learned.

My mistake was to assemble, charge and test the pack then dissemble to remote mount one cell. The protection PCB sensed the removal of one cell from the pack and registered a fault; thus shutting off the output power. Re-connecting the external cell was not enough to bring the pack back to life.

When I could get no output I suspected a broken connection or dead cell, so I completely dissembled the pack and cut the PCB free of the heat-shrink I used to cover it. I found no broken wire, no shorts and all of the cells were within .01V of each other. WTF, over!!!

Time to hit the net in search of answers. There is a lot of stuff out there on Li-Ions. Lots of it speculation or just plain bad information. The light bulb went on when I read the technical data sheet for the TI chip that is the heart of most Li-Ion PCBs. I discovered that by assembling the pack, then disconnecting one cell the PCB’s brain thought one cell had gone bad and shut down.

OK, so the PCB needs to be reset. How to do that? The technical data sheet wasn’t so clear on that. One method mentioned was to present a charge voltage to the pack, but my smart charger sensed that the pack was in failure mode and would not even try to charge it.

Back to the net. I found a sketchy video with a method to revive a laptop pack after changing out a cell. He demonstrated momentarily jumping the PCB + Output to the last cell of the pack’s + terminal for just a moment while under load.

I tried it and it worked!!! Son of a gun. I could have done that without tearing everything apart and saved a few days.

To review; To reset the PCB that has gone into protection mode from a missing or undercharged cell you simply place a load on the pack output, then momentarily jump the + from the last cell (B+ on my PCB) to the PCB Output + (P+ on my PCB).

WARNING - Replacing cells in a pack is not recommended and can increase the fire hazard. Charging an over-discharged cell can also be dangerous. Use this information at your own risk.

@Rooster - Feel free to post your A-Bomb pic here.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Bomba_atomowa.gif)

Edit to say Thanks Jon for your edit

…(http://www.freethoughtnation.com/components/com_comment/joscomment/emoticons/funny/images/devil.png)…

David is nothing, if not predictable :wink:

David Russell said:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Bomba_atomowa.gif)

Edit to say Thanks Jon for your edit

…(http://www.freethoughtnation.com/components/com_comment/joscomment/emoticons/funny/images/devil.png)…

I like your new wide-screen version better.

OK, stoopid question. Why couldn’t you buy 2 smaller packs and hook them together once they were in their proper location?

John Bouck said:

OK, stoopid question. Why couldn’t you buy 2 smaller packs and hook them together once they were in their proper location?

Not a stupid question John. In theory, yes. In practice no. In order to fit in the tight space I have available I needed to make my own pack. A 3 Cell triangle for the boiler and a single cell for the air tank…

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post3/CVSRy5-72.JPG)

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/Post3/CVSRy5-65.JPG)

The tank doesn’t have room for a protected single cell pack and a standard 3 cell flat pack wouldn’t fit in the boiler.

Had I have been able to fit two pre-made packs I would have gone that way. Having a single plus a 3 cell might present a charging challenge though. In my Porter I used two pre-made 2 cell packs wired in series and they charge fine as a 4 cell pack.

Tony Walsham said:

David is nothing, if not predictable :wink:

Thanks Tony…you guys keep my adhd in check !!!

Is that better Jon?

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/John_FFR/Operation_Crossroads_Baker_resize.jpg)

Perfect! That’s the picture I had in mind when I jumped across the protection board :] i wonder why there is no one on the beach or at the tiki bar?

I put my battery pack in the fire box through the bottom.

Thanks for the tip. I have a pack I need to try that on.

Terry

The jumper wire routine is very much like you would do when replacing a regulator on an older auto that had a generator. Sets the polarity correctly. My Studebakers are like that both 6 and 12 VDC

Terry Burr said:

I put my battery pack in the fire box through the bottom.

Thanks for the tip. I have a pack I need to try that on.

Terry

It’s a little late for me to change my strategy, but I’m interested in how you did that. I assume you got rid if the flicker board. Did you also cut open the bottom of the boiler tube to get more height?

Dave Taylor said:

The jumper wire routine is very much like you would do when replacing a regulator on an older auto that had a generator. Sets the polarity correctly. My Studebakers are like that both 6 and 12 VDC

Dave,

That was called ‘flashing the field’. I’m older than you think.

Joe, I believe that is what I did. I remember carving in there with the dremel. There would be room to put the flicker back in with a little mod. I didn’t put it back in at the time because I couldn’t see it on the ground in the daylight. In the future I may reinstall it.
Terry

Thanks Terry.

Sorry Jon, the auto correct on my phone changed you to Joe. Also, the carving didn’t do anything to effect it’s structure.
Terry

No problem Terry. My dad was Joe, so I’m used to it :]

Jon Radder said:

Perfect! That’s the picture I had in mind when I jumped across the protection board :] i wonder why there is no one on the beach or at the tiki bar?

Because they knew Rooster was out in the bay trying to salvage scrap batteries from all those old luxury liners. (You know, the type that caused the fire aboard the Carnival? ala Dreamliner? J/k)

Bikini Atoll I presume?

J.D. Gallaway said:

Jon Radder said:

Perfect! That’s the picture I had in mind when I jumped across the protection board :] i wonder why there is no one on the beach or at the tiki bar?

Because they knew Rooster was out in the bay trying to salvage scrap batteries from all those old luxury liners. (You know, the type that caused the fire aboard the Carnival? ala Dreamliner? J/k)

Bikini Atoll I presume?

LMAO!! LSC Rules!

…(http://www.freethoughtnation.com/components/com_comment/joscomment/emoticons/funny/images/smile.png)…

You guys are the best!