Large Scale Central

Layout plan #237.1

Track and Trestles
#1

track plan

Ok finally got this on here. I want all thoughts, ideas, what would you change, etc. Right now this is a ground level plan, whole yard size is 66 x46 with the low wall at the top (north ) about 3 feet from the actual block wall 18" above the actual rest of yard. My thoughts are long, 15-20 car trains with minimum 10" curves, main one being by the pool pump on the right side of yard. Az landscaping, 3/4" rocks everywhere except grass and pool decking. Hard clay soil so scraping rock away is probably ok for sub road bed, then building up actual road bed with crusher fines or grit.

The loop on the left is about 15’ from house to wall and flat, but loop on right will be the 10’ curve and it will be where trains go up or down from lower to upper level, so I have to figure out best way to ease the climb or decent, having the pool pump there poses a problem, access to pump etc, so maybe a tunnel to get to upper level , or a deep cut will be needed.

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^^ here is the view from the house looking kind of north west.^^ most of the landscaping is subject to change, except the trees

this gives a good idea of the elevation change needed on the pool side. The 3ft block wall hiding the pump is just stacked, so it can and might be removed or altered as needed. On the left side the elevation change will be on straight track so not as problematic. Oh yes, and good eyes will catch a problem with the pool, this is calllled a rolled bond bead, and the pool company has since found out it will delaminate like it has, several times. Don’t get me started. Anyway I welcome your thoughts… go!

Yard is about 22ft from patio up to north (top) wall, the 46ft is long side yard included

#2

I have only one thought that jumps out at me. The wye in the middle of the yard that cuts the yard in half between the pool and the grass. That seems like it would be a high traffic area and subject to track being stepped on. and as a complex piece of track work would require a healthy stride to clear it. I might consider ommtting that section altogether. By doing so you would not have to walk over any other part it looks. Now if your heart is set on it and that isn’t a bad thing, then Bruce Chandler on here did a piece where he inset the track in a cement walk way where the top of the rails were at the same height as the cement. this way a person could walk on the track without damaging the rails. I will see if I can find the thread.

#3

I apologize it was not Bruce but rather Bob Hyman and here is the thread

http://largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/24456/concrete-walkways-steps-and-railroad-crossings

He is pretty ingenious on how he did this so oyu can walk over the thing. Maybe consider that as an option.

Also check out the free program AnyRail. It will help you lay this out and you can program in minimum radius and max grade and things like that to keep you in line. It actually gave me perspective on what I can and can’t do in my space.

#4

Track or battery power?

#5

Battery Power to me seems the way to go. I will probably still use 332 brass track due to foot traffic possibility. Aluminum would work for a lot of areas, so I guess I will use what I can find . How much trouble is having a 10ft diameter curved grade? it is the one spot that has me concerned if I can spread the curve out by using flex track and bending it myself I may be able to lessen the curve, or by adjusting the of the grade to make it more gradual

#6

I have 10 foot curves on my railroad, and my railroad is almost all curves and 2.58% grade. It does limit the train length a bit, depending on the locomotive and cars I am hauling. Since I put ball bearings the journals of my USA reefers, my LGB moguls can haul 10 or so, and a caboose, up that kind of grade. My USA F3 and Aristo RS3 can handle 17 Aristo boxcars, and probably more, but my reverse loop limits the train length to 17 cars.

#7

Your sidings right off the patio with trailing and facing point turnouts would be a “Timesaver” puzzle, if there was a run around track. You can get more info by doing a Google search on “Shunting Puzzles”. Perfect location.

#8

Grades are a concern, nothing will limit your trains more than a steep grade going up or down. A 10’ diameter curve is generous and your trains will look good and perform well on them. If possible why not try to keep the curves level then on the approach make the grade there. Of course the best approach would be not to have any grade and use either built up or torn down landscaping to give an illusion.

I think less track is a better approach to more realistic running. A train needs a purpose such as to shuttle freight or people from point A to B and the real RR’s get there as direct as possible. Switching at both ends is a must have plus a few sidings along the route for operations. A big lazy loop around the yard is good for continuous running.

I would try to avoid putting track through high traffic areas and that includes getting lawn mower in.

Happy RRing.

#9

Who services your pool? Even the best intentioned won’t be as cautious as you will be, most times. * yes an admission to the occasional cut corner… Hard to tell by the drawing where the trap basket is, but I do know that I need secure footing to open my sis’ pump trap.

I don’t wish to discourage, rather to help you plan for life’s odd touches.

I have had good success with a 2% grade through 10’ curves, but I run smaller older style trains. The C-16 pulls like an Hartland and the 4-4-0 is one.

Freights are plodders and the 4 car passenger skips… quick footed on tangents and sure footed on the curves. Complaints from the Obs on the rear led to the slow down. Counties might be dry, but not the V &TW! Made payroll there!

John

#10

Todd, this is the “I found a lot of money”, everything included idea, I have ideas for industries taylored to my actual customers, so there must be work for the trains, but I also want a trouble free nice big loop so I can watch them rollaround without messing with things too much.

Rick, I was origionally wanting the track to loop around the poolbetween the decking and the house, and I still might change that idea. The timesaver part, I was just guessing how to put one more siding , so that is totally depending on what room there is when track work starts.

John, pool man is a relative and we are talking of remodeling the whole pool, so IF that happens I will see about moving the whole pump setup to give me room in the back corner. I know its been put out several times but what is the formula to figure out track grade. Thanks for the input , this is what I wanted, other ideas about what looks right or more importantly what looks wrong.

#11

Ric, I have also looked at bending the one siding in a curve to the east end of the patio, and adding a wye as a beer delivery to thirsty bbq operator. There are probably places where what I want will not fit, I have not had the opertunity to go out and lay hose around to see if it will work. I may do thet tomorrrow. I have truck tie down 4" webbing straps that do a pretty good imitation of a right of way

#12

Grade is rise divided by run times 100. So if you have a 1 foot rise in 50 feet of horizontal distance that would be 1/50 x 100 or a 2% grade.

#13

Thanks David, but you have to adjust that formula it makes my grades steeper than I want and that is un acceptable. So 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 % is not way out of normal for most layouts or say a USA GP38 pulling 10 to 20 cars. Spent the last half hour attempting to access GR magazine site to look at a review, but cannot , so I will look elsewhere.

#14

My RS3 and USA F3 can pull 10 cars easily on my 2.58% grade. I have had up to 17 cars on both locomotives, and they can pull a train like that too. But I do not know what the long term effects will be on the gears in those locomotives. So I have spare gears for those 2 in my spares box, and I make sure my locomotives are lubricated properly. I bought them back in 02 and 04, and they are still running just fine on their original gears.

As for changing math, I found out in the third grade that math will not change for me, no matter how much I insist that it should. So, that is the formula. You could just build what you want with no regard to the formula, like Boyd did. But then Boyd had to double head his 4 car trains up his one turn helix too.

#15

Grades are the hardest thing our trains face going up and down they put much strain on the gears then if you add in curves it makes it even harder.

My tallest grade is 3% and I don’t like sending long trains up there. I ran out of room when I was building the RR so that was the best I could do. My trains seldom exceed 8 cars using bachmann steamers or USAT diesels.

USAT are easy to fix if you blow a gear and parts are available but what about other trains that you might acquire down the line. Finding a gear for a Aristocraft engine might not be so easy. I would seriously reconsider putting in any grade that is over 2%.

If you do run out of room for some of your sidings you could put them in later and limit that traffic to smaller trains. It would give you and excuse to run something different to service the facility on that tight siding.

#16

I’m sorry but your basic problem is lack of a Priority. You have too many constraints caused by space wasting endeavors.

That planter could be lowered and the pool and grass are really in the way. Free yourself from such nonsense and come back with a plan that befits your dream!

Garden railroads are a compromise. While for many a 10’D curve is a luxury, under your modern equipment it becomes a tight speed restricted section of track.

I have all 10’ curves, I have one 1:29 cattle car. To my eye it never looked good, the over hang … well I chose the backwards compatibility principle.

While not a fan of it with the Tubes, (archaic reference) it worked for me and I went with Aristo Classics at 1:24. 35 foot cars seem to fit better to me, oh I get a lot of flack for the odd gauge but, I don’t care… It’s mine.

I think you need to lay out some track and set some cars on it, your mind’s eye might need calibrating…

Welcome aboard.

John

#17

John Caughey said: I think you need to lay out some track and set some cars on it, your mind’s eye might need calibrating…

I agree with John.

Put some track and cars in area’s that are giving your mind trouble … it works.

Keep us posted …Ya welcome aboard!

#18

Here is the NW corner of the patio, this plant, while we(SHMBO) and I both like it, It is MASSIVELY invasive. having started from a $1.99 small pot about 10 years ago it has spread under the brick border and into the lawn on the other side. This was chopped back to ground level last year. So the Operations fore woman in a suprise move has put out a P.O. for a crew to come in and clear the area for trackwork and an Industry, Probably a abrasives facility.

First order of work was for huge G scale chopping machine, seen with red handles to chop down the forest and clear the way for intensive digging to be done in second phase

you can see here , most of the leaves by the brickwork is new plants coming up, they too will have to be dealt with probably by excavation

Phase 2 of work also was commenced as thousands of scale operators used the 20’ wide by 120’ tall blueand black LOWES Kobalt digging machine to excavate the major problem with this forest, the root system. Any little bit of left over roots will sprout, as will almost any part of this plant. My area is heavy clay soil and a former riverbed so I also have discovered many landscape boulders, seen to the right of the digging machine. Crews also reported several 20’ tall glass like tanks the had the odor of a fine malted barley beverage in the area, but when management came by to inspect the work thay had mysteriously disappeared

As the work week ended, the first portion of the work order had been completed ahead of schedule with minimual collateral damage, 2 water mains had been severed, but with a fast notification the system has been turned off until repairs can be made, also old abandoned water lines were found and will be disposed as needed, or just re buried. Due to the invasive nature of this plant, more excavation will be done to attempt to locate and remove as much root and any thing that looks like it might root.

On another note a railroad in a far town went up for sale today, but due to travel delays I was unable to travel to the sale , so missed out on about 400ft of track and other items. Upper Management has issued a suprising open ended P.O. for track aquisition, and a craigslist ad had been answered, so now we are waiting on the return to town by the seller. Also hoping to hear from the cross town liquidation to see if any track is still available. Progress will be slow , but any progress for me is mounmental.

Inside the office complex decorative changes have been made, an old, old American Flyer Santa Fe freight was brought out and put on display on the opening above the desk between front room and kitchen. I have in the garage a large box of A.F. track, it was supposed to be a shelf layout around a converted 2 car garage/ play room.

HO scale train from the 80’s was also dug up and placed on the top moulding of the desk. I need to get some track for thisto help hold things from falling. All these additions were supervised and ok’ed by Upper Management.

the entire holdings of the GRR have the other side ( kitchen) of the opening from the American Flyer