I liked the part where a long time employee might get a bonus if they hadn’t made any mistakes recently.
I guess that would require Stanley paying Kader just to stay associated with them. 
There biggest mistakes is one working there for 21 yrs… I can’t say what I was org. going to say… laf.
I’m still not sure what the point is here. That Chinese labor practice are ruthless? That’s not a surprise. They are as ruthless as American labor practices were 100 years ago. (or still are, really). There were riots like this all over the United States in 1908. Ruthless labor practices=low prices. Sad but true. And Andrew Carnegie managed to thrive despite a whole bunch of violent labor actions against him, riots and strikes ten time bigger than the one described in the link. So is it bad for Aristo? I doubt it. Ruthless labor practices =low prices. Are you taking the workers’ action as a sign that there’s something wrong with Chinese workers, or that there’s something wrong with management?
If aristo announced a 20% price increase because they were moving production to a factory in New Jersey, and paying workers $15 an hour, would people here be happy? Personally I’d rather pay more for stuff that was made by unionized workers who got paid decent wages. I don’t really have that option though, and I suspect most guys on this forum are strongly anti-union and would denounce that idea. Am I wrong about that?
There’s Hartland, and lately I’ve been buying a few things from them, although it’s all the wrong era/guage. But “made in America” by who? At what kind of wages? Does anyone know? I’d love to know more about the Hartland factory. Maybe I should stop buying stuff from Aristo, or USAT, or Bachmann or AML altogether. It’s worth considering.
Mike, It is my Understanding that HLW is made in In.
here is a link to the story of HLW:
http://archive.mylargescale.com/articles/articles/philjensen/PhilJensen01.asp
Quote:
. . .Hartland specializes in high-quality, affordable G-Scale Locomotives and Rolling Stock: coaches, freight cars and cabooses. We also manufacture brass and aluminum track and other accessories for the Garden Railroader. HLW equipment is designed to run on #1 gauge track and is compatible with other G-Scale trains and track accessories.
We are very proud to say that HLW products are American made; Designed, manufactured, assembled and packaged in LaPorte, Indiana! Because of this, these trains are of the highest quality and are less expensive than inferior imports. Quality is evident in every aspect of this equipment's design. The engines are powered by industrial-grade, high-torque, long-life DC electric motors. The bodies of the engines and cars are injection molded with UV-stabilized ABS plastic. This makes them durable and resistant to the damage caused by sunlight. Superior design can be found in even the smallest of details! Where other manufacturers chose to use plastic on small detail parts (such as boiler hand rails, whistles, safety valves, and even flag pole pockets), HLW uses solid brass decoration on many of our locomotives. Electrical pickup from the tender wheels aids smooth operation. Crisp and detailed lettering add a high class touch.HLW is true enjoyable quality–American-made!
.
.
.
Thanks Cale–I had seen that on their website. I was wondering if anyone knows about the actual factory–is it hiring undocumented immigrants, or using a stable local workforce?
I wish they made more 20th century, standard gage stuff
Mike,
They make 20th Century stuff, just early 20th Century. The plant is along I-80/90 in Indiana. As to who works there, no idea. ASs I understand the train portion of the business is small compared to the other plastic injection molding business they are involved in. Most of their equipment is 1/24th, but some what acceptable in other scales. I don’t think it is as highly detailed as some, but is great kitbashing fodder. Some claim their gear boxes are almost bullet proof. I’ve not always found that to be the case, but they are certainly repairable.
I am going to exclusively make any purchases of “new” rolling stock from Hartland. If we don’t support them, they may not be around long.
The availability of Hartland products is very limited. My favorite dealer, Ridge Road Station, doesn’t carry their products.
I may be wrong, but I bet theirs is a small, family run “factory”. Their products are scarce enough I highly doubt they have a high volume production.
They may already be on the way out. Their web-site is updated very infrequently. They haven’t posted a winner in their monthly drawing in over a year. I seriously doubt they have had any drawings in a long time.
I am going to call Hartland Monday. I am going to order something. I don’t know what. But it is time to start supporting the efforts of those who are not sending all of our jobs overseas.
I just hope it’s not too late.
Ralph
Is MTH made overseas?
mike omalley said:You're not wrong about that for you. I personally purchased my last Hartland D&RG 4-4-0 BECAUSE it was made in the USA (hope to buy some of their long pass cars if I'm not broke after Chrismas!). I started buying Lionel "G" ages ago because I liked it AND it was made in the USA. I agree with what you say but for one thing...whenever possible I avoid union made. Hate unions, hate what they do to worker productivity period. China needs 'em, we don't.
... Personally I'd rather pay more for stuff that was made by unionized workers who got paid decent wages. I don't really have that option though, and I suspect most guys on this forum are strongly anti-union and would denounce that idea. Am I wrong about that? ...
Greedy unions, greedy management destroying the US auto industry, they both get what they so richly deserve. Saw a PBS special on unions ages ago about an american bottle plant. A woman opened boxes of beer labels and placed them in a labeling machine, 20+ an hour plus full bennies, and claimed she was well worth it. Of course the plant was closing in favor of a more automated plant. Would quit my current high stress engineering job if I could get that kind of cake for stacking labels in a hopper!
Mark Verbrugge said:mike omalley said:You're not wrong about that for you. I personally purchased my last Hartland D&RG 4-4-0 BECAUSE it was made in the USA (hope to buy some of their long pass cars if I'm not broke after Chrismas!). I started buying Lionel "G" ages ago because I liked it AND it was made in the USA. I agree with what you say but for one thing...whenever possible I avoid union made. Hate unions, hate what they do to worker productivity period. China needs 'em, we don't.
... Personally I'd rather pay more for stuff that was made by unionized workers who got paid decent wages. I don't really have that option though, and I suspect most guys on this forum are strongly anti-union and would denounce that idea. Am I wrong about that? ...Greedy unions, greedy management destroying the US auto industry, they both get what they so richly deserve. Saw a PBS special on unions ages ago about an american bottle plant. A woman opened boxes of beer labels and placed them in a labeling machine, 20+ an hour plus full bennies, and claimed she was well worth it. Of course the plant was closing in favor of a more automated plant. Would quit my current high stress engineering job if I could get that kind of cake for stacking labels in a hopper!
Mark,
Have you ever worked on an assembly line? I have, although not auto related. I wouldn’t take $50 an hour to do it again. You can’t pay me enough to be miserable and hating life.
Walk in their shoes before you tell me they’re overpaid.
We have people making billions sitting on their ass and you’re complaining about overpaid assembly line workers.
Ralph
mike omalley said:
I'm still not sure what the point is here. That Chinese labor practice are ruthless? That's not a surprise. They are as ruthless as American labor practices were 100 years ago. (or still are, really). There were riots like this all over the United States in 1908. Ruthless labor practices=low prices. Sad but true. And Andrew Carnegie managed to thrive despite a whole bunch of violent labor actions against him, riots and strikes ten time bigger than the one described in the link. So is it bad for Aristo? I doubt it. Ruthless labor practices =low prices. Are you taking the workers' action as a sign that there's something wrong with Chinese workers, or that there's something wrong with management?If aristo announced a 20% price increase because they were moving production to a factory in New Jersey, and paying workers $15 an hour, would people here be happy? Personally I’d rather pay more for stuff that was made by unionized workers who got paid decent wages. I don’t really have that option though, and I suspect most guys on this forum are strongly anti-union and would denounce that idea. Am I wrong about that?
There’s Hartland, and lately I’ve been buying a few things from them, although it’s all the wrong era/guage. But “made in America” by who? At what kind of wages? Does anyone know? I’d love to know more about the Hartland factory. Maybe I should stop buying stuff from Aristo, or USAT, or Bachmann or AML altogether. It’s worth considering.
You said what I have also suspected myself for quite awhile …
and I suspect most guys on this forum are strongly anti-union and would denounce that idea. Am I wrong about that?
Everybody has different roots …and storys , and since my grandmother and her sisters worked in a woolen mill as children , before the labor laws forbid it .
I am proud to be a retired life long UNION member IBEW 702
And if they don’t like unions …they can KMA
It is OK for us to demand fair pay and safe working conditions. Why do we object when others want the same conditions that unions have achieved for us? Non-unionists despise the work that has been achieved through union intervention and yet are not too proud to accept the same conditions and pay as unionists receive. If your not happy with your pay and work situation then strike on your own and see how much you achieve singularly.
In so far as China, are we that selfish that we would deny these workers a chance at better living conditions, or are we scared that prices of out beloved trains will rise???
Tim Brien said:
It is OK for us to demand fair pay and safe working conditions. Why do we object when others want the same conditions that unions have achieved for us? Non-unionists despise the work that has been achieved through union intervention and yet are not too proud to accept the same conditions and pay as unionists receive. If your not happy with your pay and work situation then strike on your own and see how much you achieve singularly.In so far as China, are we that selfish that we would deny these workers a chance at better living conditions, or are we scared that prices of out beloved trains will rise???
YES!!!
15 miles on the Erie canal.
Ralph,
I usually buy my HLW from Wholesale Trains…Call them, do not order online!!!
I’m thinking RLD hobbies and G Scale Junction also carry the line…you can order from HLW direct but only the “specials” (I think!)…so whatcha gonna order?
The difficulty with most unions is that they become entrenched bureaucracies, more focused on continuing as an organization than in looking after the membership. At least, that has been my observation. Unions almost singlehandedly killed the US merchant marine.
Cale Nelson said:
Ralph,I usually buy my HLW from Wholesale Trains…Call them, do not order online!!!
I’m thinking RLD hobbies and G Scale Junction also carry the line…you can order from HLW direct but only the “specials” (I think!)…so whatcha gonna order?
I see they have the “Mack” on the specials page, $45 and free shipping. No color choice, but I’ll probably repaint anyway.
I’ve never ordered from Wholesale Trains. Probably because their web-site.
G-Scale Junction has a very limited web-site.
Given my druthers, I’d rather order from a well constructed web-site like Ridge Road Station.
Ralph
mike omalley said:My only point was that the supposedly superior system, the one which claims to be better for the average guy, really isn't any better.
I'm still not sure what the point is here. That Chinese labor practice are ruthless?
mike omalley said:As a general rule I'd prefer to see jobs going to workers in the USA. How much they're paid and whether they're unionized is another issue. I am willing to pay a little more for some things in order to keep jobs here. Hobby stuff's a bit tricky though, because people don't need it and thus a low priority on most people's budget.
If aristo announced a 20% price increase because they were moving production to a factory in New Jersey, and paying workers $15 an hour, would people here be happy? Personally I'd rather pay more for stuff that was made by unionized workers who got paid decent wages.
I have mixed feelings about unions. If it wasn’t for unions, we’d most likely still have twelve hour workdays, sweatshop conditions, and Third-World wages. On the other hand, the unions are corrupt, they squeeze cash out of the members to line the pockets of mobsters and union bosses (usually one and the same), they protect inefficiency and oppose necessary change, they’re prone to violence against innocent people, and they try to stop people from exercising their right to work.
I don’t really know what the solution is, but from everything I’ve ever seen I’m pretty certain that socialism is a cure that’s worse than the disease.
Anyway, that’s my two cents and I’m sorry if it’s gotten too far off topic. I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.
Ralph Berg said:Mark Verbrugge said:mike omalley said:You're not wrong about that for you. I personally purchased my last Hartland D&RG 4-4-0 BECAUSE it was made in the USA (hope to buy some of their long pass cars if I'm not broke after Chrismas!). I started buying Lionel "G" ages ago because I liked it AND it was made in the USA. I agree with what you say but for one thing...whenever possible I avoid union made. Hate unions, hate what they do to worker productivity period. China needs 'em, we don't.
... Personally I'd rather pay more for stuff that was made by unionized workers who got paid decent wages. I don't really have that option though, and I suspect most guys on this forum are strongly anti-union and would denounce that idea. Am I wrong about that? ...Greedy unions, greedy management destroying the US auto industry, they both get what they so richly deserve. Saw a PBS special on unions ages ago about an american bottle plant. A woman opened boxes of beer labels and placed them in a labeling machine, 20+ an hour plus full bennies, and claimed she was well worth it. Of course the plant was closing in favor of a more automated plant. Would quit my current high stress engineering job if I could get that kind of cake for stacking labels in a hopper!
Mark,
Have you ever worked on an assembly line? I have, although not auto related. I wouldn’t take $50 an hour to do it again. You can’t pay me enough to be miserable and hating life.
Walk in their shoes before you tell me they’re overpaid.
We have people making billions sitting on their ass and you’re complaining about overpaid assembly line workers.
Ralph
Yes Ralph, I have indeed done boring and repetative work for hours on end loading an auto-router. You miss my point, stuffing bottle labels in a bin is not worth well over 20 an hour period. Unions got it for their workers for a short time and then the jobs left as a result. Re-read my post, I blamed BOTH the over-paid exec and the greedy unions. As far as taking $50 an hour to work on an assembly line again…yep, I most certainly would (104K/year).
I repeat what I said…“Greedy unions, greedy management destroying the US auto industry, they both get what they so richly deserve”. Both groups out to get as much for themselves while offering as little as possible at the cost of the other. Not a win:win to be sure.