David , the technique may be similar , but it is not the same . Airbrush droplets do not incline to scale .
I use weathering powder and /or airbrushes /cotton buds /Tamiya paint buds . None of them can be carried over at the correct scaling .
Are you saying it isn’t a good idea to practise on a piece of scrap rather than buying H0 models to play about with ?
Mike
David Maynard said:
Gee, that may be true, since I don’t use weather powders I wouldn’t know. I yes an airbrush and paintbrush, and the techniques are pretty much the same in HO and large scale.
Are they ever, applying that same very fine mist that one can use in HO looks even better in LS. In my former life, when we were running the “Beyond the Basics” courses, one of my friends taught the participants the fine art of airbrush weathering without going crazy - this was before the “artists” discovered the moving canvas in their very big way. It was subtle to medium mucky like one would see standing at track side on a moving train.
However Andreas and I subscribe to the same philosophy - model the typical, not the extremes. We had a special expression for layouts at shows that crammed everything in there and used extreme weathering: “Yep it’s all there, except a camel.”" It was our own little Swiss joke.
Mike Morgan said:
David , the technique may be similar , but it is not the same . Airbrush droplets do not incline to scale .
I use weathering powder and /or airbrushes /cotton buds /Tamiya paint buds . None of them can be carried over at the correct scaling .
Are you saying it isn’t a good idea to practise on a piece of scrap rather than buying H0 models to play about with ?
Mike
Mike, I say practice before you attack something you want to keep. But unpainted metal? Maybe if you paint it first, in a railroady colour.
I dunno about scaling the mist from my airbrush. I adjust the spray pattern according to the model and the effect I want, so, for me, it scales fine.
Hans, yes, I have seen many models over weathered. IMO I don’t want something that looks like it belongs in the scrapyard, but all shiny and new isn’t my bag neither. I like a mix of shiny and new and a little road weary, but not decrepit.
Yep, and for that one studies proto pictures 'til the cows come home.
RhB keeps the equipment very clean, but there are exceptions to the rule. So I copy one of the exceptional engines and someone told me “No way!”, I just had to show him the colour picture of that engine on a regular train.
As I have been modelling a variety of subjects for the last 70 years , I think I may lay claim to a little experience .
I am not going to get into puerile arguments over this , but neither of the above answers mention “scale colour” .
Scale colour is the most important aspect of weathering . If you use the same colour density on G as on H0 , you will be messing it up before you start .
Now if you disagree with that , fine . But if you are going to try advising modellers on weathering , make sure that you do not make fundamental errors right at the outset .
Think on this .
Take a bottle of paint and use it as is to colour a piece of rolling stock at G scale . Now , using the same bottle , colour an H0 model . Now compare the result . One or the other is not going to look right . No argument , it is a fact recognised by most good modellers .
The same argument applies to weathering .
That fact is one of the reasons that modellers often are dissatisfied with an “exact” colour as sold by several manufacturers , and also explains why the different manufacturers claim theirs is the true colour , yet if you do a straight comparison between several “true” colours , chances are they are all different .
The differences can be corrected for the scale you are using , but to explain how would take us through weathering from start to finish .
The last time I offered to show how to do weathering , some idiot put a reply saying " If you really want to see how to do weathering properly , see…"
So I did not bother . And I shall not bother now , because I have better things to do than sit here typing all day .
There are good books on the subject , Read them . But remember , they are only a guide . You cannot expect to produce instant good results .
It is an art , so is a Picasso , so is a Vermeer . Both artists’ paintings command high prices but their techniques are as different as chalk and cheese .
Mike
Just for an example of comments on colour of paint the real railroads use…
The old Railroad Historian for CPR, when asked the true formula for “Box Car Red” answered; “Which batch”, and another time was quoted; “At how many hours after the car was first put into direct sunlight”…? (The last quote, was made when I was in his presence)
Paint like box car red is bought in bulk, and is known to vary by the batch. Any paint, especially the “Reds” seem to fade quickly in direct sunlight, close is good enough, unless you know how many hours out of the paint shop your model is supposed to represent.
The type of light present when weathering, or painting, will give the viewer different concepts of what the colour looks like, and everyone’s eyesight is different, so beware.
Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD (Hons) said:
Just for an example of comments on colour of paint the real railroads use…
The old Railroad Historian for CPR, when asked the true formula for “Box Car Red” answered; “Which batch”, and another time was quoted; “At how many hours after the car was first put into direct sunlight”…? (The last quote, was made when I was in his presence)
Paint like box car red is bought in bulk, and is known to vary by the batch. Any paint, especially the “Reds” seem to fade quickly in direct sunlight, close is good enough, unless you know how many hours out of the paint shop your model is supposed to represent.
The type of light present when weathering, or painting, will give the viewer different concepts of what the colour looks like, and everyone’s eyesight is different, so beware.
Padre,
The same applies pretty well world-wide. As one of the RhB forum members - heavily involved in restoring historical rolling stock on the RhB - replied to the question “Which RAL tone is that?” “Oh it’s not a RAL tone, we had two cans of “that colour” paint standing around and mixed them” (slightly paraphrased).
On the light conditions, the following is a typical example
…
(http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/P1a/MuotNord03_s.jpg)
If it goes outside one checks it in natural light, if it goes on a inside layout one checks under the actual layout light, not the light in the workshop.
PS on the RAL colour chart, a handy PDF is this http://www.swiss-composite.ch/pdf/i-RAL-Farbkarte.pdf
In my workshop I have a mix of fluorescent and incandescent lighting, so I don’t get too much colour shift from my lighting. Yes, I get some, since I am not using photo quality lights.
As for scale colour and scale weathering, I agree. The smaller the scale the grayer the tone should be for the base colour. Maybe with a slight, slight tinge of blue. And I agree that weathering colours should be adjusted for scale. But the original comment was that weathering techniques don’t translate between the scales. Later the comment was clarified as applying to chalks and powders. I admitted that I do not use that medium for weathering, so I wouldn’t know.
I use the same techniques for weathering with an airbrush and paintbrush in whatever scale I am modeling in. I didn’t say that the colours are the same, or are thinned to the same consistency, nor are they applied in the same amounts in the different scales. As you stated, its an art. Some of it, ok, a lot of it, is adjusted as I go. I do thin coats of whatever colour I am using, and when I think I am done, I blast the model with just air to dry the paint and see where I am actually at. Then I add more as needed.
Also the question of practice brought up the different scale discussion. I agree, that because its an art, it needs practiced. I chose to practice on HO throw away cars, because they are already painted and lettered, and I could see what I did, and if I liked it or not, on that kind of medium. If I just practiced on a piece of metal, I don’t think I would have realized the full effect of what I was doing and trying to learn.
Because weathering is an art, everyone develops their own techniques and tricks. There isn’t really a right or wrong way of doing it, if the desired end result is achieved.
One of my “tricks” is to dull coat the model before I start, and I use water based craft paint. That way, if I bugger it up, I can wash away my sins and start over. But that trick may not be something other folks would use, or would want to use. Again, we are back to the art thing.
David , as I said , a serious discussion on weathering needs a full explanation of one approach .
That would then encourage where , if at all , discussion of where modellers go “wrong” .
As I said previously , talking about it without that approach being fully explained is pointless .
It’s like telling someone how to change the spark plug and then expect him to service the rest of the car .
So , there will be no further comment from me .
Mike
Well, I managed to get a small amount done between all the rains.
…and here’s where I ran out of gravel. I’ll get some more ordered tomorrow.
And as soon as I took that pic, the rains hit again. Time to call it a day.
Looking good, Matt…
You gonna make it over here next weekend??
Thanks Andy. Yes I do. 
I hope to come saturday. I’ll shoot you an email here in a few minutes.
Matt
Progress looks good!
If you make it over to dad’s (Andys) place swipe that Amtrak train for me he really has no use for it!
Rooster, thievery? You would stoop to thievery? I mean, what kind of an example does that set for the rest of us?
Besides, I already know how to steel. 
I’m going to be on my best behavior! I just got the invite to go.
David Maynard said:
Rooster, thievery? You would stoop to thievery? I mean, what kind of an example does that set for the rest of us?
Besides, I already know how to steel.
David,
Usually that calls for a “Shut up, Rooster” post. 
Hans, do I know The Rooster, I mean, Heir Rooster, Sir, well enough to tell him to shut up? I mean, that’s a comment made between friends.
Well, I got the roadbed filled. Good enough for now anyway. The guy I get my gravel from wasn’t home. I did get all the track connected yesterday and just as I was going inside to get an engine, it started pouring down rain. Figures.
When I got hom from work today I hurried inside and grabbed an engine. It hadn’t rained in about an hour! I managed to make two trips around the layout and it started raining again. It actually started sprinkling as soon as I brought the engine out. BUT, I did finnally run a train!! The tracks not level at all, but the eninge didn’t derail.
Here are two really short videos.
http://vid128.photobucket.com/albums/p169/Alwaysbroke2006/trainvid1.mp4
http://vid128.photobucket.com/albums/p169/Alwaysbroke2006/trainvid2.mp4
Looks really good Matt.
Thanks Joe!!
