Large Scale Central

It is official, Märklin has declared insolvency

General Discussion
#61
Bob Burton said:
Tim,

Carefull who you call a Troll, as I beleive you are in the same class…

Hans-Joerg,

Your still in that hole, you need to stop digging!!


Bob,
look to history. 1941, Hess flew to England to make peace, as Hitler was intending to invade Russia. He was ill-equipped to wage war on the Eastern Front and the Western Front, simultaneously. He had a short-term victory in the east, as he duped the Russians into believing that he was staging a training exercise close to their borders. Well, we know the outcome. The Russians rallied their forces and drove the axis troops back to the bunker in Berlin - total annihilation. If you look to your strategy, you seem to delight in staging a battle on two fronts, with the inevitable egg on the face. Take this as a warning, or simple friendly advice.

#62

“No enemy bomber can reach the Ruhr. If one reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Goering. You may call me Marvin.”

#63

JJ,
at one time I am sure that the Japanese war cabinet and Emperor Hirohito, were adamant that no allied bomber could reach Tokyo, or Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

#64

Tim,
It’s a joke- lighten up.
Meyer-Marvin, Marvin-Meyer…

#65
Bob Burton said:
Hans-Joerg,

Still can not admit that you were wrong & Marklin was not the great savior you thought it would be, so much better than Silvergate as I recall… Buy the way I have never been a LGB lover…


By the way Bob,

If you read your above statement carefully, the errors of your ways would hit you between the eyes. :smiley: Or did you already forget that Slivergate didn’t even exist during the time under discussion? Slivergate is such a recent occurrence that even your short term memory should cover that. The “saviour” bit has been covered already. That leaves your “LGB lover”. Tell you what, I’m really not interested in your sexual orientation. As far as I’m concerned you could be a hetero-, metro- or other sexual, but your lack of versatility most likely precludes you from being a LGB lover. :lol: :wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :lol:

#66

JJ,
I know that you are joking and that is what makes all these discussions good fun. I always find it amusing to discuss any topic with you.

#67

Tim Brien said:
JJ, at one time I am sure that the Japanese war cabinet and Emperor Hirohito, were adamant that no allied bomber could reach Tokyo, or Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

That confidence didnt last very long either, only from 7 Dec 1941 untill 18 April 1942. :wink:

(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g40000/g41196t.jpg)

#68

Victor Smith said:

Tim Brien said:
JJ, at one time I am sure that the Japanese war cabinet and Emperor Hirohito, were adamant that no allied bomber could reach Tokyo, or Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

That confidence didnt last very long either, only from 7 Dec 1941 untill 18 April 1942. :wink:

(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g40000/g41196t.jpg)

Vic, C’mon, you know that never happened. That scene was filmed on the MGM back lot using a green screen. :stuck_out_tongue:

#69

Steve Featherkile said:

Victor Smith said:

Tim Brien said:
JJ, at one time I am sure that the Japanese war cabinet and Emperor Hirohito, were adamant that no allied bomber could reach Tokyo, or Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

That confidence didnt last very long either, only from 7 Dec 1941 untill 18 April 1942. :wink:

(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g40000/g41196t.jpg)

Vic, C’mon, you know that never happened. That scene was filmed on the MGM back lot using a green screen. :stuck_out_tongue:

just like that moon business http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0&feature=related :lol:

#70

I somehow thought that it was all a Hollywood movie. Was it “Doolittle’s Raiders”? Remember that a lot of the Pearl HarboUr ‘actual footage’ was really filmed as a propaganda film, long after the December 7th raid. Hollywood does create history (was John Houston the director of the Pearl Harbour footage?)!

********Refer my response dated February 9th. Film was directed by John Ford, called “December, 7th”. It was funded by the U.S. Government and as stated in the blurb, is a mixture of actual footage and reenactments to tell the story of the fateful day.

#71

Wouldn’t suggest that to any pacific war vets out there. There’s still many inside the U.S.S.Arizona!

#72

“a lot of the Pearl HarboUr ‘actual footage’ was really filmed as a propaganda film, long after the December 7th raid.”

John Joseph Sauer said:
Wouldn't suggest that to any pacific war vets out there. There's still many inside the U.S.S.Arizona!
Very well said. You know every once in awhile it would be fun to see some people "bitch slapped" by a 92 year old veteran.
#73

After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, the U.S. Government commissioned Hollywood to make a propaganda film to bolster the confidence and fervour of the American people to raise their emotions to avenge the attack on their homeland. No one doubts the casualties inflicted during the raid. However, most of the film footage we have today of the raid, is a result of a film re-enactment staged after the raid. Do you really believe that cameramen, with cinema quality cameras, were waiting around for an invasion to occur. Remember that the raid occurred early on a Sunday morning and according to most reports was totally unexpected and that most of the American fleet was a long way from home base. If an attack was expected, then the base would not have been left unprotected. As stated previously, I believe that John Houston was the director of the film.

Prior to the raid, only 15% of Americans were in support of America entering WW2. After the raid, almost 100% voiced their desire to avenge the raid and enlistments increased dramatically.

Addendum: It was also common practice among the Germans to re-enact their battles, simply for the camera. A lot of the early eastern front campaign plus many of their famous tank battles, were re-enacted. The same is also true for both Allied and Axis troops in WW1 on the battlefields of Europe. The propaganda possible from film was highly exploited (and highly censored) by both sides of the conflict, in both wars. Believe it or not!!!

#74

Anyone who has any doubts about “Why we fought” just needs to look at this video- It’s the real deal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NaaN0wQtbg

I’d also recommend watching this as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mut8XaA_Bk0&NR=1

#75

Tim you need to read:

http://www.amazon.com/Thirty-Seconds-Over-Tokyo-Lawson/dp/0743474333/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234110428&sr=8-2

The “fake” period propoganda film of Pearl Harbor you guys all have in your minds was in all likelyhood from a commemorative film made in Japan shortly after the attack.

Toho Studios made an movie “The Battle of Pearl Harbor” under special orders from the Japanese military government which feature elaborate for its time special effects including large scale ship models and aerial model effects. Its these scenes most of you guys are likely thinking about. the movie was SO convincing that after the war some still shots taken from the film were mistaken as actual aerial photography of the attack happening.

If you’ve ever seen the series “Victory at Sea” you can see many of these effects shots being used to depict the Pearl Harbor attack, then later for various Japanese battles. If you know where to look, some of these wartime films are now available on DVD.

Just an aside but all this learned model shooting and special effects expertice later came back to save Toho Studios in the post-war era, in the form of a certain big green radioactive monster.

#76

Vic,
I had never heard of the 1942 remake of the attack, by the Japanese and contend that a propaganda film, organised by the U.S. government, to up morale, was made of the attack, by re-enacting certain scenes to glorify the American defense of their homeland and restore pride. Remember that this attack was a resounding defeat and would have had a negative effect on morale (although it did have the effect of turning the tide of American reluctance to enter WW2). The videos as presented by JJ show what is undoubtedly the direct hit on the Arizona, but many of the minor scenes of sailors fighting back, are I doubt ‘actual footage’ taken during the attack. There is a lot of ‘stock’ film footage shown.

 In support of your 1942 Japanese made film,  here is an excerpt of a film review made by an English reviewer of the 2001 American film 'Pearl Harbour".

Quote: “…Halfway through the movie, I suddenly recalled another film about Pearl Harbor which I had seen in Tokyo more than 20 years ago. The War at Sea from Hawaii to Malaya was made by Yamamoto Kajiro in 1942, for the anniversary of the attack. Like the current American film, it was a spectacular masterpiece of cinematic technique. The most expensive Japanese movie ever made up until then, Kajiro’s picture was full of special effects that had never been seen before. The battle scenes, shot with miniature models, were so realistic, and so skilfully blended with newsreel footage, that Americans who saw the film after the war thought they were real…” (end quote).

#77

While researching my belief that a propaganda film was made after the Pearl Harbour attack, I stumbled onto this site. It is a wealth of film information.

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/department55.cfm

Here is an interesting American propaganda film exhorting Americans to enter the war. It commences with the attack on Pearl Harbor.

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/309.cfm

#78

Yeah thats the film alright.

To bad they had to go make that 2001 travesty of all things accurate remake with Ben-I-cant-act-Affleck and his too-dumb-for-words-buddy Josh-duhh- Hartnet, I so hated this film I contended that everyone associated with the casting, scriptwriting and historical background checking on this film should have been banned from filmmaking for 3 years and be required to go back to school for that time period.

#79

This is the film made by John ford, called ‘December 7th’

http://www.archive.org/details/December7th

This is an excerpt from the fil description. Film runs for 32 minutes and is worth watching.

““December 7th,” directed by John Ford, begins with the aftermath of the
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, nicknamed “the Navy’s hundred million
dollar fist.” Authentic footage of the invasion is mixed with reenactments
to provide a complete portrait of the events of that fateful day. An
extended sequence pays tribute to the American soldiers killed in the
attack, many of whom are individually profiled, complete with
testimonials offered by surviving family members. American bravery is
not only embodied by the fallen, it is proven by the resolve that comes
in response to the attack. The film culminates in a profile of the
Navy’s recovery of one sunken vessel in particular, employing the effort
as a metaphor for the American cause, “a symbol of the fighting spirit
of our men who build and man our ships.” Much like this successful
refitting, the film suggests that American forces will rise from destruction, stronger than they were before.”

#80
Ric Golding said:
"a lot of the Pearl HarboUr 'actual footage' was really filmed as a propaganda film, long after the December 7th raid."
John Joseph Sauer said:
Wouldn't suggest that to any pacific war vets out there. There's still many inside the U.S.S.Arizona!
Very well said. You know every once in awhile it would be fun to see some people "bitch slapped" by a 92 year old veteran.
JJ and Ric, this is the movie that I was referring to. "December, 7th", made by John Ford (director) and funded by the U.S. Government as a propaganda film. It contains actual and reenacted footage, as outlined by me in my original response several days ago. Direct link to the movie in the posting above. This is the 32 minute version of the film, released as part of a government propaganda campaign. It won four Academy Awards (apparently). The original film was 81 minutes in length, but the original was censored by the U.S. Government for over fifty years. The 32 minute film was released in 1942, I believe. Apparently, John Ford upset U.S. government officials, by using Japanese speaking actors (with suitable English subtitles) in reenacted scenes, in the original 81 minute release.