I was just cleaning up the railroad getting ready for the new stuff and noticed that most of the ballast is not even close to the roadbed anymore. Even though I used the stone dust - crusher fines - whatever, it just seems to wash away in the rain.
I put down pounds of this stuff and every year I have to repeat the application.
I am left to wonder if it’s even worth it.
I know it looks very nice when newly applied but I’m thinking of some changes for the future. Ideas?
Eventually it slows the loss.
I have at least 2,000 pounds of the stuff on the CCRy.
Used to put 2X100 pound bags a year, now down to one bag lasting 2 years.
Any maintenance I do, I shop-vac it all up, have a screen I sift it through into a 5-gallon bucket and re-lay it.
Pine needles and such, two buckets and a boxfan.
Set the boxfan on the edge of the rr, empty bucket below, and start slowly to see where the stuff falls with pour rate and fan rate, all the stuff blows out, basically “clean” ballast falls into the second bucket.
Yeah, it’s worth it.
TOC
Up here, I use crusher fines for the sub-roadbed only. I then set the track on this, and use quarter-minus (concrete aggregate) for the final ballast. Its chunky, and not scale at all, but it stays put better than just using fines. And it has the added bonus of not splashing up on the track/turnouts/buildings/scenery like the fines do when it rains.
Now , here’s a thing , something I know about at last .
I bet you all laid the ballast straight on the ground , without digging a small trench ? And also didn’t pour loads of weed killer and worm chaser and stuff into the little trench you’d dug --or not . I found in rainy ole’ UK that the first layout I did had the same problems as you describe . Then I went to a well known model village and asked the track chappie how he coped , and he said to do what I just said , dig a little trench the width of your ballast , about half inch deep , just enough to stop the base ballast wandering . Because the stuff wants to stay stacked , the bottom layer which can’t move sideways keeps the upper lot in control . The addition of weed killer and slug stuff and worm killer helps no end , their subterranean habits , though not visible , cause disturbance at the surface . If you really want to keep it in place permanently , try putting a wash of white pva on it , that sticks it together sufficient for a soft vacuuming . My new layout --when I get started --is going to be at waist level , so the ballast will be in troughs anyway .
Give it a try in just one part of your layout to prove it .
Mike
Yea, I guess technique should be discussed.
First, I dig a trench, about 5-6 inches deep, and a spade-witdh wide. I line the bottom, and up about 2" with landscape fabric. Fill and tamp with crusher fines, to level. Add track, and line and level with concrete aggregate.
The landscape fabric keeps weeds down.
The smallest crush I can get delivered locally is what they call #2 which contains everything from dust up to about 1/2" pieces. I sift it through 1/4" mesh hardware cloth. Every thing that goes through becomes top coat, what doesn’t becomes fill and base. The topcoat goes a long way, a 5 gallon bucket will do 50 feet or so of track and that’s using double height ties. It still needs periodic renewal but doesn’t wash away with the rain like fines do.
Bruce,
Before I elevated the RR I was using #2 poultry grit (which I still use) and it held up quite well in the rains we get up here. I did have to reballast every Spring but much of that was due to settling and the occasional rambunctious bird. Even the prototype has to reballast periodically. While a bit more costly the advantage is that grit can be purchased in bags which makes for easy storage until needed. You may have to hunt a bit to find a color other than white although most places will order it for you.
Whether you use ballast or not you really need to settle the track in even if only for looks. Track just sitting on top of the ground isn’t very attractive. Many logging lines had no ballast at all but just dirt of course. Except when first laid the track soon settled into the landscape if it remained for any length of time.
To hold the ballast in place, I mix GP Cement with the ballast and use for the shoulders only, then I ballast the track with Crusher Fines, so that the track can move with expansion and contraction, without the sub ballast washing away every time it rains! Works for me.
I agree with Richard , incorrectly done ballast looks worse than no ballast at all . It comes from the old maxim --if a job is worth doing , it is worth doing properly – . Easy for some of us smug buggers to say , but it doesn’t alter the fact .
Apropos of nothing in particular , use it as you will -----------
When I took my layout up from lying in contact with the ground ,via ballast ,I did an archaeological pit across a couple of sections . The old engine oil trickled in there during construction was still sat in the same place , it hadn’t seeped down or up . It was easy to shovel up and dispose of . It contained no weeds ,worms , slugs , or anything to interfere with the smooth running of trains . It even still smelled of creosote after all these years .
I thought Bruce’s question was a good one, because I’ve often wondered if ballast actually serves any function other than aesthetic.
Whether it does or not, another problem I can’t figure out how to solve is that of obtaining a mainline look to the job–that is, a clearly distinct top ballast all nice and tidy with uniform width, etc., on top of a subballast of some kind. I’m not sure it’s even possible without building a fake, solidified top ballast similar to what the indoor guys do (or used to do) with cork, etc.
Hi Kirk - I hadn’t had a chance to say hello since you showed up here. Glad to see you! Function - not necessarily (depending on roadbed); Aesthetics - Definitely YES. While it is probably not possible to achieve the level of realism one can get indoors in the smaller scales with all of the materials available; many have been able to get a very good approximation. I’m still working on my technique, but I’ve been happy with the results, if not the cost. Because I’m too lazy to shovel a trailer load of stone dust, I buy a bedding sand (for patio stones) product that is bagged by Old Castle and sold locally by Home Depot - it’s called Mr. Granite Step 1 and Step 2. Step 1 is about 1/2" screen down to dust and Step 1 is about 1/4" screen with lots of dust. A lot of it migrates away with a heavy rain and I need to put down another 2-300 Lbs. this spring, but to me, the look is worth the effort. You can see both types in this photo taken last fall… [url=
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[/url] Click Photo to Enlarge My preference is to put down ballast, even if it is not needed. I’ll eventually be converting to concrete roadbed. I have considered a tray design with edges to retain some of the ballast, but don’t know if the difficulty of casting and edge is any different from just putting down more ballast. Jon Edit to fix broken link
With the Ops Session coming up in less than 2 weeks, this is a very timely question for me. Over many years I have added ballast as I prepare for the season. This year I’m not adding as much because l’ve come to the conclusion the ballast is there, but the track is risin above it. I guess it is a form of “frost heave”. It started when I was considering raising some brick walkways because the track was getting so much higher than the brick.
Lifting the track, scraping the ballast out and reapplying over the same track has resolved the situation, besides lowering the tackage for better allignment and certinaly faster than reballasting. In most areas, I can just move the track back and forth with downward presssure and then level. Sweep with small brush and all is aligned.
Quite strange. Like I said, “frost heave”, I guess.
Yes, almost all of our track just floats in ballast.
I use a shop-vac and a sifter.
I re-use all my ballast.
Stone dust, or as some call it “Crusher fines”, are cheap…I just had a contractor dump about 1/2 a ton in my lane way for nothing. True he is using a bit of it for a job he is doing for me, but I told him I’d keep all that was left after the job, so he built a lot of extra into the job (The extra cost is so little, to him, as he hauls his own, and the quarry where he gets it, charges very little…it’s the transport that usually costs so much). The stuff he just dumped, he said was left over from another job, and it was less costly for him to leave it here than to take it across town to another place.
I use pressure treated roadbed, and the ballast is just for show…but it does make the pike look so much better…
The “American Invasion 2006”, will find that Craig Leigh looks so much better with ballast…I was not going to bother; but wiser minds convinced me to ballast it.
Yes Bruce…do ballast the pike…you will find it looks better.
Fr.Fred
Those of us, who do no work on the IPP&WRR, but come purely for the pleasures of enjoying it, appreciate all the efforts.
I believe ballasting makes the layout look a lot better than nothing at all. I use Grey colored rolled roofing material on my tabletop layout as anything is better than bare wood.
Cheers,
Ballast? We don-need-no stinkin’ ballast!
Later, K
I have to add a little ballast every year to the southern new england railroad, I have found that chicken grit works the best for me. It tends to stay put even through the harsh new england winter. The addition of pvc culverts under the track in the places that tended to wash out was a big plus also. Stay away from any type of gravel that is not cut, river wash stone will do just that wash out quickly. It has rained here for the last 2 weeks over 5 inches worth and my track ballast is fine. I still have to install ballast under the switch yard and passing track but this is because I did not complete the job last year. just my .02 cents worth hope it helps
Ballast? We don-need-no stinkin’ ballast!
Well now Kevin has the exception to any ballast is better than none…
Actually it looks rather nifty. I’d like to have a layout looking like that but tooo old to be playing on the ground !! Bad knees etc…
Cheers,
Well, so ok, this is an INDOOR layout but why not …
Crusher fines as ballast. A garbage can full weighs about 400 lbs … and cost me about five bucks at the local quarry … and I got to watch the biggest front end loader I’ve ever seen (big enough to scoop up the truck if it wanted to…) expertly put a canfull of stone dust in the can (which was in the truck) without spilling more than half a bucketfull on the floor. Looks great, easy to apply … and cheap. And… it came from the same quarry that a lot of the railroad ballast in the area came from too … so I guess it’s even prototypical! The plan is to do something similar here… though I hope I can get some that’s close to that nice gray color. Matthew (OV)