Large Scale Central

Investigating a train of LNER Fish Vans

Modeling Technical Modeling
#1

The UK was/is famous for the Fish & Chips, and the codfish was caught in the North Sea, mostly off the NE and Scottish coasts. Along with other catch, the codfish had to be transported to London and other markets, and the railways evolved to handle the traffic.

The primary transport was a Fish Van, which was insulated and had a longer wheelbase than the plain goods van. As the cargo was perishable, the fish trains ran at speed - 60mph and then 75mph after they retrofitted roller bearings. Here’s a train of empties being sent back for more.

There’s some fascinating information here:
https://www.bloodandcustard.net/bluespot.html

Occasionally they would add the fish van(s) to the front of a scheduled passenger train, as long as it wasn’t likely to exceed 60mph!

So, now I have a couple of LNER locomotives, the question arose of what freight they could pull. Fish Vans came to mind, though the locos did pull ‘regular’ pick-up goods trains. This pic of “Gnu” has a few goods vans an some mineral wagons - easy to find/buy.

B1 61018 Gnu on a pickup goods
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Unfortunately, I have not yet found a vendor who has made a 1/32nd scale model of a fish van. I have found an N scale 3D print:

The developer, when I inquired about 1/32nd scale, kindly upsized the files for me, so in theory I am ready to go.
https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/n-gauge-1-148-scale-british-rail-spv-parcel-van

However, I have not yet invested in a printer, so this post is to ask for your opinions on the next step. Google says there are several services who could print my files. Would it be cheaper to use my own printer?

Your expert thoughts would be appreciated.

#2

Peter,

I found a printer at ALDI for $299 and immediately put it in the shopping cart. Herself looked at me with incredulity and said “What’s this? You haven’t taken the time to over-think this. Have you?”

And you know Peter, she was right. I went home that night and looked at the reviews and the ALDI reviews were good. I then picked up a copy of MAKE magazine, and found their article on what makes an AWARD WINNING 3D printer.

At that time it was $999 USD PRUSA.

They offered a $245 USD discount if you wanted to build it as a kit.

So I got that one. Needless to say, as I knew no one else in town that had one, the tech support at 8am, 10pm and 3am was the one thing that took the frustration out of my purchase. I would recommend them just for their 24/7 support. But the other neat thing is if you need a PRUSA part, you can print it yourself in many cases.

Are printers and filament overpriced? Maybe… PRUSA is open source and Thomas Sandlanderer has a video on how to Scratch-Build a PRUSA clone. He built one using the cheapest available parts (not high-end components, like the PRUSA) for €50!

So my advice is… over-think this.

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There are a lot of inexpensive printers out there and a lot of valuable advice available on LSC. Plus there are many Large Scale items to be found in PRINTABLES & THINGIVERSE etc. that you just don’t know that you neeeeed.

Here is the other up-side to having your own printer. Peter when Carbatec left town, I ended up purchasing a tool that had an unusual size dust port that wouldn’t fit my 4” port.

I just made these magnetic hose connectors to hook the machine to the dust collector.

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#3

In my area when I think of historic “Fish Vans” (or carriages) I think of this.

https://catskillarchive.com/rrextra//fishcar.Html

#4

Peter;

Another thought, perhaps too “off the wall.” Bachmann make large scale British railway stock for their Thomas the Tank Engine series. Could you take two Bachmann Thomas vans and kitbash them into a suitable fish van, or is their scale much too large?

Just a thought, David Meashey

#5

Pete,

A few thoughts / questions.

  1. Usage: How many cars do you want to make? And are you willing to learn 3D CAD to use the printer for other projects? If “not many” and “no,” I’d say that the learning curve / frustration, in addition to expense, might not be worth your time. But if the second answer is “yes,” by all means go for it, you’ll be glad you did.

  2. Car specs: What are the car’s dimensions? This, and the printing approach, can determine build volume and therefore printer size.

  3. Printing approach: FDM (“toothpaste”) is strongest, can last outdoors with proper filament, has larger build volumes, and parts are ready to use when printed. Resin provides better detail, and is great for detail parts; but it’s messy, requires ventilation, and parts need to be washed and cured.

  4. Machine / brand: Referring to FDM, as Bill mentions, one can go DIY, or build-it-yourself machines. I’ve had two, and been frustrated by clogged nozzles, settings not seeming to change anything, and limitations of material without an enclosed system. I bought a Bambu Lab PS2, and all that changed. Heated & enclosed, smart self-checks, automatic filament feeder, etc. It just works. I send my file, and get a print. These run about $780. There might be similar units by other manufacturers, but I can’t comment on them.

  5. Car design: No matter who prints them and by what printer, design is quite the can of worms. In N-scale, it’s easy to print anything, all in one, especially using resin. But in G gauge comes size of build volume (usually forcing one or more splits), after-scaling surface width (sometimes requiring thickening or thinning), strength & straightness of parts (often requiring reinforcement), orientation within printer and how supports are arranged, assembly features (e.g., interlocking or fastening of separately-printed parts), incorporation of commercial parts (e.g., wheels & couplers), etc. I (and probably others here) would be happy to look your file over, and offer more specific ideas along these lines.

Cliff

#6

Well, the scale isn’t 1/32nd! They seem to work out about 1/26th.

So thanks for the idea, but it wouldn’t work.

#7

A proper (model) Fish Van train should be 10-30 vans. I don’t know how many I actually want or could store.

I’ve actually dabbled in 3D design, though it was so long ago I don’t recall what the object was. I do a lot of 2D CAD - GAL made the EBT coaches from my CAD files. So I have no doubt I could manage modifying STL files, etc.

I note that no-one suggested using a print service. Are they all gone out of business?

#8

Since you already know CAD to a large degree, that’s half the battle. I bet you’ll enjoy printing your own stuff!

Since printing service costs take into account build volume, they can be pretty steep… But, why not get quotes? Jawstec is reasonably priced (relative to, say Xometry and others), and give instant quotes for a number of materials & processes.

Another route is to have your masters 3dprinted in resin (for best detail), and make urethane castings for mass production.

#9

Well Pete, I don’t think I’m an expert but I can tell you my thoughts. If I wanted them I would just do it the way I/WE did it before all this AI and yes I classify 3d printing in that category.
I know darn well you know how to do the same cause you are probably 100 yrs older than me!! :grin:

#10

Could you imagine the environmental impact statement you’d need to do now using those fish vans, @Rooster? Even out here, we have a couple game fish brought in from elsewhere that proved pooer game, poor eating, and poor environmental additions.

I now return this thread to train stuff.

Eric