Large Scale Central

Intermittent Phoenix P5

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

I picked up a used Phoenix P5 from Bruce. It worked great when I got it. Was playing around with it on the bench yesterday and dropped it about 3 feet to the wood floor. Nothing looked damaged and it worked when I tried it, but then the next time I tried it there was no sound. I found that by putting a little twisting pressure on the C1 connector end of the board, it will boot up and start playing sound.

When it is “dead” I hook it to the computer and it’s recognized. The board I/O screen says the input is Zero volts. Once I get the board to boot, by twisting or pushing on stuff, the board I/O screen says the input is about 12 volts which is correct.

The symptoms act like a cold solder joint. All of the components are surface mount, so I’m afraid to go poking around with a soldering iron. I’ve thought of using my heat gun to warm things up, but that’s a little scary to since this is a double sided board and I don’t want to risk parts falling off the bottom.

The real problem is getting it to fail. Once it boots it will work through many power cycles. It seems the only way to get it to fail is to let is sit for a long time. If I had some cold spray I might be able to isolate the component that is not making contact.

I’m thinking my only solution is to pack it up and send it off to Phoenix for repair. Not really what I want to do, so I’m open to suggestions.

#2

Send it.
But they’ll keep it for a long time, based on experience.

#3

Surface mount parts are very easily cracked which can cause all sorts of problems. As I was involved heavily with our company’s introduction into surface mount technology 15 years ago, your description of twisting the board made me grimace ! Such stresses can cause SM components to crack and I have even seen them pop right off of a board while doing that.

Finding a cracked part can be tough without a microscope but personally I’d take a long hard look at the through hole components first as they are large enough that the force of a fall might fracture a solder joint. Also reheating the connections on them is a much lower risk proposition than doing the same with the surface mount parts. Since the connectors are on the ends they would be my first suspects and their joints probably the easiest to reheat. Just go easy with the heat as those miniature connectors will melt if you apply too much heat to the pins.

#4

Thanks Gary. By twisting, I’m talking slight finger pressure, just barely deflecting the board - but I’ll stop doing that!

I’ll have to look again, but I don’t think there are any through-hole components on the board at all. If there is, in teh area of the power input, where the problem seems to e located, I’ll give that a try.

Of course, today the board does not want to fail. Booted up fine from cold and every time I tried it.

#5

Jon, what did you end up doing with this board?

Jon.

#6
Jon Foster said:
Jon, what did you end up doing with this board?

Jon.


I hope this reply will not jinx my luck :smiley: Fearing a long wait I and cost I can’t afford right now, I decided not to send the board back to Phoenix. I just went ahead and installed it in the Porter, upside down stuck to the top of the boiler with double sided tape. It has worked perfectly since. Go figure.

#7

Cool.

Jon.

#8

Of course it worked just fine 5 or 6 times; then mysteriously quit again Might be a temperature thing since it started out working when the room was just under 60 - I cranked up the propane fireplace and when it quit the room was about 70.

#9

I didn’t do it!

#10
David Russell said:
I didn't do it!
Are you sure?
#11

NO I’m not
:frowning:

#12
Jon Radder said:
Of course it worked just fine 5 or 6 times; then mysteriously quit again Might be a temperature thing since it started out working when the room was just under 60 - I cranked up the propane fireplace and when it quit the room was about 70.
Can you run it a few more times in temps under 60 to see if it works again?

Jon.

#13

As I walked by the other evening I flipped the loco on and the sound came right up. Hasn’t been touched, but the fireplace has been off. There is heat, but it’s not warm in the room without the fireplace.

I originally suspected a cold solder joint or a hairline crack somewhere. Either one would give temperature related symptoms.

#14
Jon Radder said:
I originally suspected a cold solder joint or a hairline crack somewhere. Wither one ould give temperature related symptoms.
I agree.... P.S. did you and Shawn go to the same college? :)
#15
David Russell said:
Jon Radder said:
I originally suspected a cold solder joint or a hairline crack somewhere. Wither one ould give temperature related symptoms.
I agree.... P.S. did you and Shawn go to the same college? :)
Nah - I can usually spell. I just can't see :o
#16

Any chance you can touch the easily accessible solder joints with a hot iron for a second or two? We repair old game counsel systems this way from time to time with decent success.

Jon.

#17

Thought of that Jon, but…

Jon Radder said:
The symptoms act like a cold solder joint. All of the components are surface mount, so I'm afraid to go poking around with a soldering iron. I've thought of using my heat gun to warm things up, but that's a little scary to since this is a double sided board and I don't want to risk parts falling off the bottom.
Right now its packed inside the loco. If it starts failing regularly I'll just send it off to Pheonix.
#18

I understand. If you do end up sending it back to Phoenix I’m sure they will get it sorted out without any trouble. Jim and John are always very helpful when we need to call them or send someone to their shop.

Jon.