Large Scale Central

Interesting comment from Downunder

General Discussion
#1

Hi all,

One of my compatriots - Swiss, not Canadian - publishes a monthly Newsletter called “Thoughts of Trains” (G1MRA - NZ Group). I get the impression that Bert Wettenschwiler is even less keen on the scale mish-mash on 45mm track than I am.

Let me quote you from page 9 of the Aug Newsletter

ToT Aug 2008 said:
A couple of people hinted that I was exaggerating with my comment that the multiscale Gauge 1 equipment on the market was turning many fine modellers off from starting a Gauge 1 model railway. Well, here is a copy of a comment someone as respected and well known as Tony Koester made in a message to Gary Raymond after attending the NMRA's National Model Railroad Convention in Anaheim, California recently;

Let me again express my admiration for what you are doing in 1:32, and for the leadership you are thereby showing scale modellers, many of whom flinch and turn away when they see compromised 1:29 equipment.
Those big GEs (MTH, as I recall) were awesome, as was that 4-8-2.
Tony Koester

No, I don’t think I’m exaggerating at all. The problem is that not enough experienced and respected model railway modellers state the facts so clearly, because they are afraid of upsetting the odd commercial contact or toy train fan. There is nothing wrong with toy trains, as long as it is not paraded as being a model railway and the toys are passed of as “models” and painted in the colours of a prototype railway. Toy trains and model railways are not one and the same, though, like myself, you may of course enjoy watching and playing with both. Just don’t mix them in the same train and don’t buy toy trains painted up like models. Otherwise it says loud and clear that you know nothing of model railways nor, probably, of toy trains.

BW


Hmmmmmm Errrrrrrr (Ralph will remember what that is!) :wink: :slight_smile:

#2

Interesting? I guess so, if one guy in New Zealand thinks so! :lol:

-Brian

#3

Does he have a garden railroad?

#4
Brian Donovan said:
Interesting? I guess so, if one guy in New Zealand thinks so! :lol:

-Brian


Brian, don’t judge unless you’re reading the Newsletter, really interesting what Tony K wrote to Gary Raymond!

#5

Well, I was trying to be a little light hearted about the topic but let’s go -
This topic of discriminating the “toy” trains versus the “finescale model” trains seems close to your heart. I am unsure what your motivation is in doing this. Are you trying to promote more finescale modeling, trying to feel superior to us lesser garden railroaders, or just putting the fly in the soup to stir up conversation?
There are guys out there making stunning models and have very humdrum layouts, there are those who have great layouts and run shiny LGB trains on them and there are those who have a loop of track with painted birdhouses on them. I have yet to see anyone that gets it all right. Is the point of this to get it all right or to have fun doing it? The difference between exclusionary and inclusionary attitudes.
I grew up reading MR and RMC. Do I still read them? No. Why? They are repetitive and boring. Small scale model railroads have been built the same way for over 60 years with nothing new and innovative with maybe a couple of exceptions - DCC and the use of foam for construction and decorating. Really, none of the challenges of garden railroading. Of course there are many who are into large scale that have no hint of a garden, maybe, that is who this is addressing. They can sit in the dark and count their rivets. I’ll be outside enjoying a beer and a habana watching my toy trains run in the garden.

-Brian

#6
Brian Donovan said:
I am unsure what you motivation is in doing this. Are you trying to promote more finescale modeling, trying to feel superior to us lesser garden railroaders, or just putting the fly in the soup to stir up conversation?

-Brian


Wow, talk about hitting the nail square on the head!

Everyone out there dabbles in the hobby to suite thier own tastes. The last thing we all need are “scale Nazis” running around telling us what is acceptable and what isn’t. If a manufacturer picks a particular scale or God forbid (sarcasm) a compromised scale that is thier choice and they should not be dictated to by people who believe they know what is good for everyone.
Build your scale models and let the rest of us choose what we want to run on our layouts.

#7

Scale Nazis huh???
I am sure Tony Koester and Gary Raymond would appreciate that comment.

Seems JJS really is a person who knows how to get along with folks.

#8

Hear, Hear, Brian

#9

(http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/03/SOUP%20NAZI.jpg)

No more trains for you!

#10

The Soup Nazi

#11

The “prototype” modelling world this past month saw the last issue of Railmodel Journal. It has followed Maineline and Model Railroading in their publishing endings.

#12

I once made a comment on the MR forum that Koester has always been “preoccupied” with scale and prototype, although didnt say it quite that way, but you’d think I had called the Pope an A-hole by the vemonent reaction it drew from the faithfull!

Koester has ALWAYS been so preoccupied, his articles seem to have mellowed over the years, he actually one day just might endores D&RG stock in On30 as being legit, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

One of the primary reasons I dig G is that there really is no one standing over my shoulder frowning that what I’m doing doesnt adhere to any known prototype. I’m allowed to experiment with models, scales, and layouts.

Now I do understand the whole scale/gauge issue about 1/29, but I have to ask if Koester was being hard on large scale then why doesnt he offer the same criticism about O which also operates on a decidely non-prototypical 5’-0" in 1/4" scale, if you are fantasticaly rich you can afford to be “correct” with Proto-48 equipment but thats not something everyone can do?

If your concerned about maintaining a consistant scale, as long as you run the same scale rolling stock, whats the beef?

No one is forcing you at gunpoint to run MTH with Aristo…

#13

I found this particularly condescending…"Toy trains and model railways are not one and the same, though, like myself, you may of course enjoy watching and playing with both. Just don’t mix them in the same train and don’t buy toy trains painted up like models. Otherwise it says loud and clear that you know nothing of model railways nor, probably, of toy trains. "

I know what I like to do for fun and could give a rodents hind-quarters what this guy thinks. I run REA with LGB and Lionel all the time. I’ve been known to throw in a little USA and MDC on occasion too. And sin of sins I actually pulled Euro-freight with an American steamer once!

Apparently I should be driven out of the hobby as I “mix” trains all the time…I was blissfully unaware that I “know nothing”. This is the kind of garbage I will never understand.

#14

I would like to see this guy’s railroad. What are the scale distances between his signals? stations? divisions? What kind of maintainance schedules does he run on his motive power? (prototype or toy train?) Does his “model railroad” incorporate operating interface with his industries? Does it run 24/7 (a real railroad would.)

Definition:toy

  1. an object, often a small representation of something familiar, as an animal or person, for children or others to play with; plaything.
  2. a thing or matter of little or no value or importance; a trifle.
  3. something that serves for or as if for diversion, rather than for serious pratical use.
  4. a small article of little value but prized as a souvenir or for some other special reason.
  5. something diminutive, esp. in comparison with like objects.
#15

They are all toys.
Some are scale model toys.
Some aren’t. Especially Large Scale ones.

#16

Dear All,

The following is a 1:29 indoor modular layout that Tony built then published in MR:

Build the Claremont & Concord in G scale
Model Railroader, August 2005 page 68
a sectional project layout
( CLCO, “KOESTER, TONY”, LAYOUT, TRACKPLAN, CONSTRUCTION, G, MR )

Build the Claremont & Concord in G scale, part 2
Model Railroader, September 2005 page 70
a sectional project layout
( CLCO, “KOESTER, TONY”, LAYOUT, TRACKPLAN, CONSTRUCTION, G, MR )

Build the Claremont & Concord in G scale, part 3
Model Railroader, October 2005 page 48
structures
( CLCO, “KOESTER, TONY”, LAYOUT, CONSTRUCTION, G, MR )

Build the Claremont & Concord in G scale, part 4
Model Railroader, November 2005 page 78
choosing rolling stock
( CLCO, “KOESTER, TONY”, LAYOUT, CONSTRUCTION, G, MR )

…and a later “Trains of Thought” on LS:

Trains of Thought: Large scale is getting interesting
Model Railroader, April 2007 page 92
( “KOESTER, TONY”, TRAINSOFTHOUGHT, MR )

What Tony finds interesting is…MTH 1:32.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

#17

You better run HJ! The villagers are angry!

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n214/altterrain/forums/villagers-HJ.jpg)

-Brian :stuck_out_tongue:

#18

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Good one, guys; I guess Bert and Tony Koester are on to something if the vehement objections are any indication. Nothing like having someone state their believe/position quite clearly and the fur will fly.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

#19
John Joseph Sauer said:
Brian Donovan said:
I am unsure what you motivation is in doing this. Are you trying to promote more finescale modeling, trying to feel superior to us lesser garden railroaders, or just putting the fly in the soup to stir up conversation?

-Brian


Wow, talk about hitting the nail square on the head!

Everyone out there dabbles in the hobby to suite thier own tastes. The last thing we all need are “scale Nazis” running around telling us what is acceptable and what isn’t. If a manufacturer picks a particular scale or God forbid (sarcasm) a compromised scale that is thier choice and they should not be dictated to by people who believe they know what is good for everyone.
Build your scale models and let the rest of us choose what we want to run on our layouts.


Well, guys.

Seems I know a catchy topic when I read one, you confirmed that. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

Can you imagine posting something that stirs up a like furor as those political “Off Topic” threads do?

Soooo to answer Brian’s question; how about “… just putting the (well seasoned) fly in the soup to stir up conversation.” Basically I’m not concerned what others do in their railway garden; doesn’t prevent me to agree a lot more with Bert’s tack than with a lot of the stuff one gets to see all over.

#20

Scale does not necessarily incur enjoyment anymore than not to scale does not rule out any enjoyment in the hobby.

Today, I had my twin-motor B’mann Annie bash Mallett with LGB sound, running with four bashed/lengthened B’mann coach/combine/RPO’s that look nothing like Mr. B’man ever intended, followed by three relatively standard C&S stock cars and taking up the rear was a slightly modified LGB drover’s caboose. On the adjoing shuttle circuit was one of my B’mann coaches modified to look like a tram/trolley. Friends came around and were exceedingly envious. These are people with no interest in trains at all. Scale was not a relevant topic and certainly did not come up in the conversation. Lack of adherence to scale fidelity certainly did not dampen my enthusiasm, nor that of my guests.