Large Scale Central

Injection molding> NA based factory source > MR ?

General Discussion
#1

Thursday pm picked up a couple resin “ergo adirondack” chairs from lowes* on sale this weekend (for $15cdn) Noted the made in usa stickies and decided with a spare 20 min. this early pm to chk out the manufacturing company, and its other offerings that might be out in the marketplace these days !

Gong thru their manufacturing bio page;

http://www.adamsmfg.com/company/manufacturing-excellence/

got to wondering if they’ve been approached by continental-based model rwy manufacturers.

If so how did it work out ?

Oooor right off the ‘get-go’ was MR (base) specifications just too fine for detail, etc., and if doable, final $ !?

doug c

p.s. the chair; http://www.lowes.ca/adirondack-chairs/adams-mfg-corp-realcomfort-adirondackreg-chair_g1473182.html#aRvw

#2

Doug in my job as a packaging designer I service this company. I have toured their plant a few times. It’s a great company with some very nice folks running it. They have several very large presses that enable them to produce some big chairs in one piece. I imagine they might be too large for our models. They do have a few smaller ones that may be about right though.

I doubt anyone has ever inquired about them producing “G Scale” models. I’ll ask. They got their start with those little magnet men that grocery stores seem to love. (Pictured below) The lawn and garden furniture seems to be their big push now.

I’m sure if someone was to contact them with a serious inquiry they would be open to it and I believe have the equipment to do it. The detail would be only a concern in the mold making process. Molds would have to be made to fit their injection presses unless the existing ones could be made to fit. That’s where the majority of the money would be spent.

Interestingly this is one of only 4 Plastic injection molding facilities that I work with. I’m not sure if PA has a heavy concentration compared to other states or if we are just the norm. There are lots of them out there in the states but It seems to me they concentrate on the more lucrative business of supplying our disposable culture the things we need to throw away. Very different than a small run of cars that will be treasured by each person that invests in one and most likely be sold to 3 or 4 owners over it’s life of 30 to 40 years.

#3

When we lived in Erie, PA, I did notice a much heavier concentration of plastic injection molding companies. I worked personaly for 2 of them while living out there, first for Precise Plastics, which at that time was molding electrical connectors for AMP, which upon buyout by TYCO(not the train company) moved most of the molds to overseas locations. My final week there before layoff was crating up the molds. They are still surviving, barely. It was a family run business, and the owners wife was in tears as they gave us all our final checks and allowed us to use the shop phones on company time to start filing for unemployment benefits. The next was called Plastikos, they molded for a couple medical companies and a few electrical connector companies. We ran stuff there that had to run 27/7/365. So a small crew kept them run thru the holidays. Neither of these companies had presses big enough to run G scale, HO and maybe O scale models possibly. Biggest press was 200 ton and we only had a couple of those. Mike

#4

I wonder though. Would an American company really want to do get into producing train cars? Is the profit enough for them to even bother? I thought the cost/profit equation was why most of that production went to the other side of the Pacific.

#5

I hate to be a pessimist but I just don’t see it. We are in a world of low cost mass production. Large scale IMHO will always be a niche market and just since I have been on here I have read about the decline of companies and no real new up and comers. I honestly have no knowledge of such things but I just see this going to a specialty market with a few large producers and a whole host of smaller mom and pop shops and do it yourselfers.

Now if you could get them to knock out base kits such as shells and chassis/bodies then a guy could buy 10 at a time and build his own. I could see that happening. But this could be how my mind works I am bias this way.

#6

Folks, consider that Heartland is an ‘after hours’ business for the folks that own it. They ARE and injection molding company, who does models on the side when production time allows. My boss used to be a machinist who made injection molds. In today economy a set of molds could run between 25k and 100k depending on complexity. I won’t go into the math, but in today’s economy I don’t see too many companies taking that kind of gamble with out some history to follow. Kader has the history, most do not.

#7

Not to far from were I work, there is a company that does make train cars for Ro!!!

#8

I wonder how long before we can print molds?

Ro’s American production is the 1:24 line …

John

#9

Ro’s American production is the 1:24 line …

I thought so.

As for printing molds, that might be a few years off. Molds have to be quite durable.

#10

I just did a little reading on sintered steel, seems its quite durable… The way new and improved inventions are happening that marriage might not take too long.

John

#11

David Maynard said:

Ro’s American production is the 1:24 line …

I thought so.

As for printing molds, that might be a few years off. Molds have to be quite durable.

David,

Actually this process is already here AND has been for at least five years! Dr. Bill Zingheim in Washington State has been 3D printing sand casting molds and patterns for 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 scale steam locomotive cylinder castings for at least the past two years or so. Here is a link to a company that does sand casting molds and patterns: http://www.stratasys.com/solutions/additive-manufacturing/tooling/sand-casting

#12

There should be some molds out there from failed companies. Great Trains comes to mind. I know Ray tried to track down the molds but I don’t think he ever succeeded. Been some other obscure companies from the past that I can’t recall the names of, but someone may know of the location of their molds.

#13

Gary Armitstead said:

David Maynard said:

Ro’s American production is the 1:24 line …

I thought so.

As for printing molds, that might be a few years off. Molds have to be quite durable.

David,

Actually this process is already here AND has been for at least five years! Dr. Bill Zingheim in Washington State has been 3D printing sand casting molds and patterns for 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 scale steam locomotive cylinder castings for at least the past two years or so. Here is a link to a company that does sand casting molds and patterns: http://www.stratasys.com/solutions/additive-manufacturing/tooling/sand-casting

Sand casting and injection molding are 2 entirely different processes. Case in point; the East Broad Top sand cast, cast iron parts for their locomotives, and the masters they used were made of wood.

Yes the molds from defunct companies could be a good place to start. But you would have to find out who owns the rights to them, and where they are.

#14

David Maynard said:

Gary Armitstead said:

David Maynard said:

Ro’s American production is the 1:24 line …

I thought so.

As for printing molds, that might be a few years off. Molds have to be quite durable.

David,

Actually this process is already here AND has been for at least five years! Dr. Bill Zingheim in Washington State has been 3D printing sand casting molds and patterns for 1-1/2 and 2-1/2 scale steam locomotive cylinder castings for at least the past two years or so. Here is a link to a company that does sand casting molds and patterns: http://www.stratasys.com/solutions/additive-manufacturing/tooling/sand-casting

Sand casting and injection molding are 2 entirely different processes. Case in point; the East Broad Top sand cast, cast iron parts for their locomotives, and the masters they used were made of wood.

Yes the molds from defunct companies could be a good place to start. But you would have to find out who owns the rights to them, and where they are.

David,

Apparently you didn’t read my post at all. They are 3D Printing the sand casting molds, NOT just the patterns. I have been in the sand casting, mold making and injection molding trade for over forty years before I retired.

#15

In any case, sand casting does not do the fine detail we need on our locos and rolling stock.

If someone is doing an injection mold that yields the same quality as what we are used to with USAT, Aristo, Bachmann, AML, I’m unaware of it.

It would be great, but I wonder if it would be any cheaper than the current process. Resolution costs money. Metal printing seems to be small particles of metal in a carrier, then heated to bond the metal particles, and melt out the carrier and then fill the voids with more metal.

Greg

#16

Greg Elmassian said:

In any case, sand casting does not do the fine detail we need on our locos and rolling stock.

If someone is doing an injection mold that yields the same quality as what we are used to with USAT, Aristo, Bachmann, AML, I’m unaware of it.

It would be great, but I wonder if it would be any cheaper than the current process. Resolution costs money. Metal printing seems to be small particles of metal in a carrier, then heated to bond the metal particles, and melt out the carrier and then fill the voids with more metal.

Greg

Plastic injection and metal injection molding IS how model trains are produced today…some of the most precise and beautiful molds are those for our trains. About 30-35 years ago, I applied for a mold maker position at Model Die Casting when they were still in Southern California producing trains.

AND No, sand castings are not for our scale! Sand castings are used throughout the large ride-on scales.

EDIT: I just received this email from Dr. Bill Zingheim at Northwest Railroad and Foundry:

Gary; Yes, we are presently processing three projects which involve casting parts for steam locomotives off 2-D drawings. Look up 3-D Systems on google. Z

http://www.3dsystems.com/solutions/casting-patterns-and-molds