Large Scale Central

Information required please on D&RG #211 combine

General Discussion
#1

At present I am building a model of this combine. It is unusual in that it has only seven windows on each side and access to the baggage area is by normal two-panel entry doors each side and not the normal three/four-panel doors associated with a combine. Two-panel doors were normally associated with mail cars and RPO’s.

Information is indeed scarce as I do not have a reference library and have only one very grainy mobile phone image from 2000, showing a very deteriorated car. I know that it has been purchased by a museum for restoration but as yet no restoration commenced. The site does not even have a photograph of the car. The photograph appears to show rivetted sill side plates, commonly used on baggage/RPO cars, fitted to the baggage section only of the car. I do not know if this is an original D&RGW modification or a later ‘restoration’ addition. I have not seen any photographs of combines with the strengthening plates added.

The car is 38’ 4" outside body length with duckbill roof ends. A point that I need clarifying is the rear platform entry to the baggage section of the car. The plan drawing shows an entry only but not the usual platform entry on cars, as no indication of ‘door swing’ drawn as is usual for these drawings. The opening is seemingly wider than usual. It may have had a sliding door fitted. The grainy photograph that I have is not very specific and there does seem a larger void than usual on the rear platform entry to the baggage area.

Any information would be appreciated.

#2

Tim
Show us your work. I’m interested in this
Rodney

#3

Rodney,
I will post a few photographs of the build in a couple of days in the ‘Modeling’ forum under ‘Coach Build’ heading. At present, I have the basic body constructed plus one duckbill roof end. It is the specifics like the rivetted side support panels and the end platform access door that ‘trouble’ me. The car had no crownlight windows, having the thin ‘full height’ window openings familiar to the early D&RG coaches, subsequentally onsold to the RGS in the 1890’s. My drawing states the car was built in 1900.

        This car interests me as it has the unusual features described above and is thus a worthy candidate.
#4

Tim
I’ve been following your post there. This Sound like a very interesting car
Rodney

#5

Tim,
I just looked thru my book, “Ticket to Ride the Narrow gauge” which documents all D&RG and D&RGW passenger equipment.
Can’t find a pic to scan. I can get close: #208.
All I could find was it was numbered 12 on July 12 1884, then re-numbered 211 shortly after that.
I’ll look a little more.

Further reading shows it was sold to a Utah company July 12, 1886, along with Coach Baggage (That’s what the D&RGW called their “Combines.”)

203. And a substantial collection of locos and freight cars.

There is no record of it on the roster after July 1886.

#6

John,
thankyou for the info. I must conclude that there must have been two #211 cars. My line drawing shows #211 built by D&RG in 1900. This is a different car to that sold to Utah in 1886. I would think that the car you describe is possibly a coach.

  I would think that the car you mentioned, #208 is a typical combine with normal width baggage door and eight side windows.
#7

Pretty ugly, but this is supposed to be whats left of the second 211.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/jebouck/pass211.jpg)

#8

John,
many thanks, the photograph does show some detail points required.

#9

Combine #211 was part of the Sundown and Southern until everything was auctioned off. It went to the Wagon Wheel Gap route. No idea where it is now.

#10

Hm, this page says its stored at Colorado Railcar.

http://davesriogrande.net/Rosters/DRGW/passenger/passnger.htm

Not sure where it would be now, since CR was bought by US Railcar in 2008.

#11

(http://www.mylargescale.com/1stclass/garyArmitstead/212baggage.jpg)

#12

Bob,
Which book is that?
I need a copy. :slight_smile:

The pic I found sure doesn’t look like Colorado Railcars facility.

#13

John
The book is “Rio Grande Narrow Gauge Varnish”
By Herbert Danneman
Colorado Rail Annual No. 25
Rodney

#14

Bob,
your link provided some very useful photographs.

With many thanks to an Australian LSC member, I now have an inservice photograph of #211 and some information on its history. As I suspected the baggage endwall had an opening to the rear platform when built that did not have a door (unusual as the contents are exposed to the elements of nature). In 1915 a door was added giving it the usual endwall appearance of other cars in the fleet. Also in 1915 the window behind the passenger compartment stove was removed in its entirety and the wall panelled over. Unlike other cars, the entire window was removed, including window sill, thus the six remaininhg windows stand alone on the side of the car.

In 1924 the car body and end platforms were lowered and the truck side bearings fitted to the car. In August, 1940 the car was removed from service in Alamosa as ‘worn out’. As the car was retired as worn out , then conceivably the rivetted side plates seen in the photograph supplied by John, are possibly an inservice modification due the poor condition of the car.

Edit: I rechecked the supplied photograph of inservice D&RGW #211, dated 1938, two years prior withdrawal. The rivetted support plates are fitted as of this date in the baggage section only as suggested by the photograph above, supplied by John.

#15

Tim,
I’m glad you found more history on the car. In my book it does say “removed from service as worn out” during that time.
Also it states numerous passenger cars were sold to Mexico at the same time. After that there wasn’t any reference to 211 in the book.
Removed from service means anything can happen. Sold and turned into chicken coops, taken home by an employee, dismantled, etc.
The pic I found looks like it was abandoned somewhere. Judging by the shack in the pic.

#16

Bob McCown said:

(http://www.mylargescale.com/1stclass/garyArmitstead/212baggage.jpg)

Bob, This photo is one I scanned from “Rio Grande Narrow Gauge Varnish” and posted on MyLargeScale, where there was a discussion on #212 (2nd). There is a varied and convoluted story involving #211. Original #211 was built in 1883 and numbered #12. Renumbered “#211” in the “re-numbering era” of 1885-86. Number was NEVER changed to #211, it remained #12 until its transfer to tjhe D&RGW (Utah) on July 12th, 1886. This car was sometimes noted as #211 (1st). If you can get this book and read about these cars, their history is fascinating. #211 (2nd) became the Pagosa Springs combine. Lots more history related to this car and like I said, becomes very convoluted.