Large Scale Central

Incline Railroad

Prototypes
#41

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

Now you got me settling in for some heavy research and at least another day trip to the Jim Thorpe area. Thank you John(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Come on old man …we discussed Ashland and the Manhony plane …Frackville is much closer than Jim Thorpe anyway. Remember the story 22minutes from Frackville to Harrisburg…hehe…back in the day.

Good stuff John…many have asked me why I’m not into Civil War history in my area. I answer… it’s way to much history too handle and besides I have a hobby that is endless on history!

#42

That is interesting, in the one picture it looks like they were using chain to haul the cars and in the rest of them it looks like cable.

I have never seen pictures or information indicating that chain was used on an incline, until now.

Rick

#43

Happy to spark the juices… as it were… Have fun for all of us!

#44

Rick Marty said:

That is interesting, in the one picture it looks like they were using chain to haul the cars and in the rest of them it looks like cable.

I have never seen pictures or information indicating that chain was used on an incline, until now.

Rick

I got books somewhere showing this somewhere …I love my history but I model mainline and Amtrak. Exactly why I have no interest in the Civil War history of my area. My brain is very small!

#45

Perhaps iron rails are a luxury …

Out in Nevada they copied Pete’s square timber pole road …

The Illinois Mine, Nevada.

#46

John Caughey said:

I’m kinda surprised no Easterners claimed this one…

Says folks came from over seas to see the big incline…

Here is the kicker… they hauled the coal UP the mountain!

Really neat photos, thanks John. And also quite puzzling. Looking through them, but being too lazy to do a pic-by-pic comparison, here’s some vague comments.

One version has down-haul wire rope, the other doesn’t.

One version has dual rails, with a down-turning aperture for the inner rails at the bottom; the other doesn’t.

One version has chains for at least the up-haul lines, the other has wire rope.

I’m guessing the system was heavily overhauled & re-thunk at some point. Those downward-turning rails are intriguing though; maybe for hauling bogies that caught the cars (vs. direct chain-hauling via the car’s link & pin coupler).

Back to my earlier question about lines breaking on incline rr’s (and that can happen with chains as well as wire rope, if safety factors, maintenance levels and engineering smarts are iffy), here’s a few articles that mention examples.

This one was by fire melting the wire rope (this would be a fun one to see in a movie, with a flaming car shooting down the hill):

http://www.mnopedia.org/thing/duluth-incline-railway

This by wind blowing the cars off (makes sense, the slope reduces gravity’s effectiveness in maintaining wheel contact):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimutaka_Incline_railway_accident

And a simple cable break,

http://www.niagarafrontier.com/inclinecrash.html

I’ve noticed other articles where safety devices were developed to stop the car in case of haul line breakage. Here’s an early version that used a 3rd cable for that.

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/hoboken.Html

Fun thread!

===>Cliffy

#47

BTW, pic 2 shows what seems to be the turn-around sheave (raised on a structure to the right) for the cables between the two tracks, having the cables pass though a tunnel and additional turning sheaves and then up to the track.

OK, probing a little more. Dang it, John! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

Here’s a site having a bunch of photos of the “Mahanoy Plane”:

https://anthracitecoalregion.com/2015/01/07/a-plane-engineering-feat-facts-photos-and-film-of-the-mahanoy-plane/

What I called a “bogie,” they called a “barney,” in this case a small truck-car-thing which did the pushing of cars up the hill, ducking down below the rails to get out of the way at wither end. I’ve never seen anything like that, how fun!

A clip of a ride on a car hoisted on the incline (at 9:49) and the “barney” (for a couple seconds, starting at 10:30) is seen in the following.

The above vid was listed in the site I posted, but the link was broke. So here it be. The earlier parts are a kinda fun 1920-ish animated powerpoint on how coal is formed.

#48

Cliff Jennings said: What I called a “bogie,” they called a “barney,” in this case a small truck-car-thing which did the pushing of cars up the hill, ducking down below the rails to get out of the way at wither end. I’ve never seen anything like that, how fun!

They call them Larry’s in the Pittsburgh,PA area Cliff and I have drawings from MR mag! However Maynard and Greg knew this already so I will allow them to post first.

#49

Put the crack pipe down Cliff …you already have enough on your plate !

#50

" Rooster " said:

They call them Larry’s in the Pittsburgh, PA area…

Oooh, thanks Rooster, you just reminded me of the Otis Elevating Railway.

WikiP, Otis Elevating RW

LOC collection, Otis Elevating RW

And I never use a pipe.

#51

"OK, probing a little more. Dang it, John! "

Foiled by my cursed plan…

Life is grand!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#52

More like netted in your cursed web…

I knew you’d take this bone and run with it!! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

Sorry, mixing metaphors…

But you never addressed my concrete-on-the-ore-bins conjecture though. The four-day rule says I stumped you there, HAH!

If after a reasonable period of time, four days as a maximum, the person to whom the question or challenge has been posted has not responded, their silence on the matter may be taken as affirmation of or acquiescence to the poster’s question or challenge, thereby admitting to said poster a superior knowledge of said matter.

Chandler Rules of Forum Etiquette, V2, C3, para 7.1.

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

#53

Really? A minor foot note and the world has to stop for you?(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

I accepted your wisdom and conjectured that when they put in that concrete foundation over to the left, they creted the bins with left overs … Fire resistence is a good thing in the dry desert.(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

You sure about that pipe?(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

tongue in cheek eh.

#54

Touche! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#55

John Caughey said:

Perhaps iron rails are a luxury …

Out in Nevada they copied Pete’s square timber pole road …

The Illinois Mine, Nevada.

I’ve seen that photo on a few different sites, always labeled as the “Illinois Mine, NV” but I think it’s been mislabeled. I’ve been the Illinois Mine and the area doesn’t look anything like that.

#56

Cool video, very interesting to see the old film of coal production.

One thing that surprised me about these inclines… the slope is curved, but the steel rope hauling the cars doesn’t “straighten out”. It stays close to the track. I guess the steel rope is so heavy it just sags that much even under tension.

#57

Ray Dunakin said:

Cool video, very interesting to see the old film of coal production.

One thing that surprised me about these inclines… the slope is curved, but the steel rope hauling the cars doesn’t “straighten out”. It stays close to the track. I guess the steel rope is so heavy it just sags that much even under tension.

Great point, Ray. Gravity strikes me as the main explanation as well, like a virtual set of sheaves continuously along the upper side of the wire rope, holding it against the real sheaves.

Then there’s stretch; and you have to take up the slack whether the system is loaded or unloaded, without the rope drooping off or springing out of any sheave flanges.

So at least one of the reversing sheaves requires tensioning adjustment, and also a means of compliance while operating (loaded or unloaded, and to varying degrees of loading).

I love these old designs, so much engineering skill, real education and design insight went into them. For a given crew of engineers and designers, with a team put together in 1918 vs. one from here and now, I think the old timers would easily win.

Cliff

#58

Where is Maynard? His Castle Shannon had an incline … Many cities that grew up out of river bottoms had them…

#59

Actually the P&CS had 2 inclines. The “front” incline (pictured) carried loaded cars from to top of Mount Washington down to a landing just above East Carson Street. After the railroad ceased hauling coal to the incline, the incline was actually used to haul personal cars (automobiles) up and down the mountain.

The “back” incline (seldom photographed) went partway down the other side of Mt Washington to the station and tracks of the P&CSRR. Once a tunnel was bored though Mt Washington, the inclines were no longer used to take loaded coal hoppers down to the south side flats.

Pittsburgh still has 2 inclines in operation. Its been years since I have ridden either of them. Johnstown also has a working incline.

#60

Back in the day, I think every Sailor rode the Victoria Peak Tram in Hong Kong.

I don’t know why it doesnt show, it’s got the security code. Here’s the url. https://youtu.be/c3254KtzoYg Joe?