Large Scale Central

In search of the "best" 3D printer to buy

Modeling Technical Modeling
#41

David Maynard said:

I have seen on 300toys.com, 3D printed detail stuff. Road cones and barriers. It would be cheaper to print parts then to make a mold and injection mold them. Of course, if something were to be in production for several hundred units, or a few thousand units, then injection molding is still the way to go. The speed at which parts can be injection molded is so much faster then 3D printing.

I have seen some of the items that Dave Bodner has printed. Depending on the quality setting he uses, the surface could have minor striations, or major imperfections. I would think that someone could make a decent business printing hard to find detail parts. Like Mark and the folks at Shapeways are doing. But right now its not up to mainline production. The speed and cost just inst there yet.

As the Pro in this write-up http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/05/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-for-a-living/ explains there are quite a few issues why the low end won’t meet “people’s” expectations.

Granted we all have different expectations, but … ah, never mind!

#42

Hans, yes, 3D printing is still a new technology, and it will have its growing pains. Give the technology some time to mature, and the quality of the prints, the ease and reliability of the equipment and the price of the equipment will improve.

#43

David,

As the author mentioned in that write-up: would anyone get as excited if it would still be called “rapid prototyping”?

BTW the expectations are similar to what has, and still does, apply to CNC machinery in general.

#44

William said:
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

I’m very impressed by what these little machines can do and how quickly they have improved. I remember my first color printer cost a small fortune and needed special clay paper to work. Now, the price is cheap and the resolution is better.

Certainly the 3D printers are not as easy to use as a color printer, but they are getting a lot better. Take a look at what one person has been able to produce: http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

#45

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

David Maynard said:

I have seen on 300toys.com, 3D printed detail stuff. Road cones and barriers. It would be cheaper to print parts then to make a mold and injection mold them. Of course, if something were to be in production for several hundred units, or a few thousand units, then injection molding is still the way to go. The speed at which parts can be injection molded is so much faster then 3D printing.

I have seen some of the items that Dave Bodner has printed. Depending on the quality setting he uses, the surface could have minor striations, or major imperfections. I would think that someone could make a decent business printing hard to find detail parts. Like Mark and the folks at Shapeways are doing. But right now its not up to mainline production. The speed and cost just inst there yet.

As the Pro in this write-up http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/05/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-for-a-living/ explains there are quite a few issues why the low end won’t meet “people’s” expectations.

Granted we all have different expectations, but … ah, never mind!

Most people’s “expectations” don’t figure in the learning curve for the technology, I can do more on the same printer that people “inist are not working properly” everyday. These machines DO require calibration which the average Joe just doesn’t understand… They do require good files, which are NOT commercially available for our hobby - what goods a printer if you have nothing to print?

You won’t believe how many kids try printing the damn batman car at the library, which is a bad file on shapeways and simply cannot print EVER… But yet the printer is blamed for it and taken out of service for maintenance, laughable to say the least…

#46

Mark, maybe you should fix that file for the kiddies.

Ah, no, never mind.

#47

Oh yes, the learning curve! They see the ads and fully expect that it will be cheap, easy, almost perfect and in practically no time.

#48

The problems posted on an aeromodeller site really showed what can happen with these machines in the hands of the hobbyist.
Having seen the soldering capabilities of some of the aeromodellers when dealing with LEDS I am not surprised they have problems with their 3D printers.

I rather suspect that 3D printing is very much like the newest mobile phone that comes out.
“MUST have”…an awful lot if hacked off Apple latest phone users in the last week!!

#49

Hans, but that’s the way most advertizing is. Tout how great and wonderful the product is, and oh, um never mind these pesky little features (faults).

Ross, yes I have seen that too. Soldering is a back art, as far as too many people are concerned.

#50

I just had some parts printed for a 1/32 USRA single-sheathed boxcar. If I could figure out how to attach files here, I’d show them to you. :slight_smile:

They were printed on a $1400 Afinia at the local 3D Printing Store. They definitely show the layers/grain and some of the smallest detail did not come out. But filling and sanding them for use as masters will be a whole lot less work than doing them from scratch.

#51

Ross , your jump from soldering capabilities to 3D printers is a bit wild .

It’s only QA people who like to criticise “untidy” soldering .

If your solder joint works and does not pull apart easily , that’s all you need .

If you are trying to impress a customer with soldering that “looks right” , and are prepared to price your product up to unrealistic levels , fine . I’ve seen sub-contractors go to the wall doing that .

It is possible to make soldering less of a black art (not back as David said) if you are patient .

I have seen printed circuits completely ruined by continued application of heat when “Tidying things up” , yet before the tidying up took place , there was a perfectly satisfactory circuit .

Soldering of non electrical stuff (like bodywork) is not the big deal everyone makes it out to be . If you have not tried it before , you can easily be put off by the “not for novices” brigade .

The thing to do is try it and you will come to realise that soldering can look pretty , but is not absolutely necessary----the amusing thing is the people who criticise "untidy " soldering frequently slosh Araldite all over a joint . But of course , that does not count .

I thought that the purpose of this site was to encourage people to make trains , not works of art—that can come later .

Mike

Stopwatch started

#52

I recently received some parts from Shapeways I’m quite pleased with them. Cost was between $6.00-11.00 USD and is comparable too white metal or resin cast parts IMO. I’m not sure what printer technology Shapeways utilized but it doesn’t appear to have been done with an FDM (fused deposition modeling) machine which utilize ABS/PLA filament spools which are the most common hobby 3D printers of today.

In any event I was intrigued with Shapeways quality and decided to purchase a 3D printer, having experimented with FDM equipment and the resolution thereof I decided to go with an SLA (stereo lithography) and resin based machine using FTI (film transfer imaging). The aforementioned equipment uses acrylic resin together with precision optical system with UV/laser light to cure the builds. Once the part(s) are completed they’re approximately 95% cured, and subsequently rinsed then post cured (if desired) in a UV curing oven, this allows the user to decide to what degree of hardness is applicable for the component printed., i.e., pliable or stiffer than not; great for prototyping snap fit assemblies and such. The resin material cartridge is much more expensive than FDM filament spools, time will tell how many parts I’ll realize from a single cartridge to garner cost comparison, but fully expect it costs a lot more than FDM produced components. That said the quality, resolution, precision and durability of the parts is known to be far superior than FDM produced parts.

I received my FTI 3D printer a couple of weeks ago, unfortunately something was dropped on the printer in transit. Anyway I got it up and running a few days ago and look forward to making parts sooner than later. At the very least I have to learn 3D CAD and generate .stl files of the parts I want to print. This new gadget further strings out my time to play with hobby stuff…

Michael

230-FTI print

#53

So , Michael (yet another ) , what method was used to make the superb looking head ? I can’t see any of the plywood effect that seems to appear with some machines .

It is certainly a very promising looking process if the head is typical . Cost may bring me back to reality .

Mike (one of several in the UK)

#54

Mike,

As described in my post above, the head depicted was produced with a SLA and or (FTI) film transfer imaging resin printer from the same model printer I purchased. The printer sold new three years ago with accessory UV curing and washing station for about $13,500.00 and was intended for the professional desktop modeling market (phased out and a new model is now offered).

The FTI and similar resin based 3D printers are widely utilized in Dental offices/labs together with 3D scanning for in office production of scaled fixtures and molds for replacement teeth and such.

The lack of stepping and granular layering is a byproduct of superior resolution as compared to the atypical FDM hobby machine.

Michael

#55

Just checked out the SLA specs; looks good, looks very good.

#56

Michael , thanks for your comprehensive reply . I am very surprised at the quantum leap in quality over cheaper models . I would be inclined to save up for the type you mention rather than have things not quite as satisfactory ; it is after all only the price of four of my locos , which sort of puts it into context .

Very interesting and good luck with your 3D CAD , I don’t think I could do it now , but I have done 2D CAD which would be a start .

Cheers ,

Mike

#57

Mike,

I paid about $3,000.00 used for my equipment, I got a great deal on low use system less resin cartridge. Resin cartridges cost $850.00, the cartridge incorporates parts that wear out and require calibration as well a consumable film and 1.7 Liters of acrylic resin.

The software can estimate build time and material required for a specific item and or multiple items on the same build platform generated simultaneously. The machine I have has its on onboard computer with WIN XP embedded, hardisk and communicates with a PC/laptop via Internet Explorer.

The build platen is 9"W x 6.75"D x 8"H

Michael

FTI printed parts

#58

I like the engine blocks . That’s a good candidate for the machine , the pump housings look ok too .

Good stuff all round .

I was interested in the “used price” , I could get that (just about) .

Mike

#59

Mike,

The possibilities are endless, I’m excited to get started producing parts. One of my first projects will be to draw and produce the correct booster equipped trailing pony truck for my SP Daylight Pacific and Atlantic builds. Also pondering the viability of skyline casing for the Pacific complete with panel lines and rivet detail.

Fortunately I’ve used ACAD almost daily for years accordingly I’m pretty well versed in 2D Architectural CAD; so 3D CAD won’t present to steep a learning curve I hope.

Michael

3D FTI parts

#60

Michael Glavin said:

…

Fortunately I’ve used ACAD almost daily for years accordingly I’m pretty well versed in 2D Architectural CAD; so 3D CAD won’t present to steep a learning curve I hope.

Michael

I’m using CADrail on a regular basis (2D with minimal 3D features that I have yet to use), so I figured/hoped it should be reasonably easy. Hmmmm I have done one or two SketchUp tutorials, but … oh man.

OTOH I remember when I started with CADrail, I didn’t get anywhere at any speed until I called Tom Holtman with one specific question, got the answer and away I went.

Presently waiting for that “EUREKA” moment in 3D. (http://rhb-grischun.ca/phpBB3/images/smilies/3.gif)