Large Scale Central

I covet this Lima Shay

Modeling Rolling stock
#1

Is it wrong to want an engine? I think not. I don’t suppose it or anything like it is available from anyone.

Per wikipedia, number 8 on the Mt Tam Scenic Railway was: Lima Locomotive Works 2-truck Shay locomotive #2505 April 6, 1912 74,000lbs Sold in 1931 to Shell Oil for use at a refinery in Martinez, CA;[24] resold to Six Companies, Inc. of Boulder City, Nevada; wrecked and scrapped in 1932[18] I guess the closest I can get is this Bachmann 3-truck, and then modify it? Or their 2-truck which looks like the same thing without the trailing bits. Gee, looking at the pictures, it’s closer than I thought.

#2

I love the Fastback design, its a steam sportscar! …fer all of its 15mph top speed :lol: :lol: :lol:

#3

15mph was also the top “allowed” speed when it cut loose its gravity cars to wind 8 miles down to the base of the mountain!

#4

The top picture looks like a Heisler type cab on a shay body. Looks good!!!

#5

Chuck, I may need to research more. I have a book on the way. It’s said they had Lima and Heisler and one porter. I suppose they could have salvaged the old Heisler to equip the Lima shay.

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, they did not like the Heisler cab and sent the whole engine back. An interesting mystery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tamalpais_and_Muir_Woods_Railway

Chuck Inlow said:
The top picture looks like a Heisler type cab on a shay body. Looks good!!!
#6

It should be pretty easy Michael. Shays were a pretty standard loco (at least coming from Lima, after that who knows). I would start with the bachman 2-truck shay. They are out of production but you see them frequently on Ebay. The 3-truck variant has a longer boiler than your prototype photo. You could start with that, but to be accurate, you would have to cut some out of the boiler.

#7

Michael:

The Bachmann 2 truck Shay is very close to the Mt. Tam’ Shay #8. The visual differences are mostly external metal work. The Bachmann steel cab (latest run) model is nominally 38 tons (76,000 pounds), the same weight as the specification you quoted above. It would be a relatively straight forward job to rebuild the superstructure to be very close to the Mt. Tam Shay. The mechanics are virtually identical (3 cylinders, 2 trucks, same weight, same boiler shape, very similar fuel and water layout.

I don’t understand your comment about “trailing bits,” but the B’mann 2 truck is very doable rework.

The three truck is not at all like the Mt. Tam’ Shay #8, and would be virtually impossible to rework into a model representing it. First, the mechanism is 3 trucks rather than 2. The weight of the three truck is a significantly heavier machine, with totally different water and fuel bunkers. It is not a candidate for conversion.

I have never seen any references to ‘. . . using Heisler parts . . .’ to equip the Mt. Tam Shay. In the hay day of steam locomotive building, there were lots of factory options for the sheet metal work, all the way up to the fully enclosed Shays that ran on the streets of New York. Those looked like a box cab, but were all designed and built by Lima Locomotive Works. I would guess that the Mt. Tam’s sheet metal was just another example of a Lima factory provided variation. Remember that this was a pure and simple tourist railway, and ‘fancy’ sheet metal would be considered an attractive item. A Shay that worked in the woods would be lots simpler. The NY Shays were designed to disguise the locomotive components from the horses that they shared the streets with, thus being less likely to spook said horses.

If you are interested, I’ll pull my Shay book out this weekend and see what further information it offers.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#8

Jerry, I would look for a 2 truck line, it will be better starting point. Go for one of the older runs so you get the air Tank like the photo.

Paul

#9

Jerry, I would look for a 2 truck line, it will be better starting point. Go for one of the older runs so you get the air Tank like the photo.

Paul

#10

Jerry, I appreciate that. By the “trailing bits” I meant removing the third truck on the 3-truck to make it into a 2-truck Lima. I understand your point though. I wonder if we are talking about the same device. I was looking at the Climax, which is not looking close, to me, but that, of course, is looking at the “wrong” side.

(http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products/images/uploads/85093.jpg)

Digging deeper for a “right side” photo, I see greater similarities. The cab substitution was pure rank speculation on my part. Okay. Still research time. Yes, if you can find something in your book, that’d be lovely. Plenty of time on this. First the tracklaying, then the gravity cars, and all that time I can use the historically accurate Porter 0-4-0. Thanks!

#11

Michael:

The Climax you show is NOT a Shay. The Climax prototype has a totally different drive train from the Shay and was built by a competitor (Climax Manufacturing Company vs Lima Locomotive Works). It is definitely not usable as a starting point for Mt Tam Shay #8!

Bachmann started in 1:20 scale by producing a 2 truck Shay. It really provided the impetus for accurate-to-scale models of 3’ gauge locomotives running on 45mm gauge track. That Shay was produced in several runs, with improvements in the drive train at each release. The original 2 truck Shays had (simulated) wood cabs and were models of nominally 36 ton locomotives. The latest run was a (simulated ) steel cab and was labeled “38 ton” with the steel cab accounting for the additional weight. The two truck Shays are not currently cataloged by Bachmann, but they are still available, sometimes new, but also on the used market.

Here is one (with the ‘wood’ cab) currently on Ebay:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/150780471698

Since you would be making a completely new cab, it probably does not matter whether you find a wood or steel cab to start with.

Note that Bachmann also makes a 2 truck Shay in 0n30. Make certain you are looking at a 1:20.3 model.

The plastic trucks on the early runs of the Shay were a problem, but new metal trucks are available, easy to replace, and have proven to be very reliable.

I’ll get into my library this weekend.

On edit: Just removing the third truck from the three truck Shay does not get you a two truck Shay. Lots more differences in the boiler, fuel and water bunkers, frame, etc. Not really helpful in making the locomotive you are looking at.

Hope this helps.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#12

AHA!!! The scales fall from my eyes! Thank you Jerry. Yeah, I understood that about the CLimax, I forgot to look up for things no longer made.

Very excited about representing “The Crookedest Railroad in the World” in my layout.

#13

Michael Moradzadeh said:
Is it wrong to want an engine?

(http://www.funimag.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/mt-tamalpais16.jpg)

Nope and a neat one it is…actually caught my eye and I don’t even like steam locos but they are growing on me! Kinda looks like a Climax/BL2 combination. Will you be building one soon? If so keep us posted! :slight_smile:

#14

If you need a Shay, call me.

#15

David: No. I have several major tasks ahead of that, plus a spousal embargo on more locos (and she does not know about the AMerican 4-4-0 in the closet…)

Curmudgeon: Uh oh, I may take you up on that once I get the gravity track laid.

#16
Michael Moradzadeh said:
David: No. I have several major tasks ahead of that, plus a spousal embargo on more locos (and she does not know about the AMerican 4-4-0 in the closet...).
Inside frame with red window trim?
#17
David Russell said:
Inside frame with red window trim?
No, it's a Hartland with no trim except some brass at the base of the window. Or am I confused?
#18

If I remember correctly the Mt. Tam shay’s were all wood cabs except number 8 which was steel, giving it a unique look even for that very unique railroad. The Mt. Tam number 9, a Heisler, also had a steel cab of similar but distinctly different lines.

When you get the book check out some of the motor cars they used.

#19

The book, “The Crookedest Railroad in the World”, arrived last night. Great stuff, written in 1954 with the participation of a lot of the veterans of the RR. Rick, you are right, the motor cars are truly a treat. I’ll post some links or images shortly. Here is a line drawing of Shay number 8. 10x10 cylinders, 28 1/2 inch wheels 74k pounds, built by Lima in 1912, per the book.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/cayenne/_forumfiles/shay.png)

#20

I love the all-weather cab look of that thing. My shay is in need of a cab rebuild (the original all-weather I built is a ham-handed early modeling attempt). I may have to do something similar to this. Very cool.