Large Scale Central

How to get this paint color?

Modeling
#1

I just bought an aristo rs3 and I want to paint it and letter it for the Reading Railroad. It looks like they painted them black with simple gold or yellow lettering–in some photos, they’re clearly black.

But in others they seem to be blue, or blue/black

I suspect it’s just that the photos shifted to blue over time, but I’ve seen that look in other photos of black equipment: in this case, a set of diesels on the W&OD.

Eyewitnesses on the W&OD discussion forum disagree about whether they were blue or black, which leads me to wonder if maybe the paint on the Reading RS-3’s shifted over time Either way it would be an interesting finish to try to duplicate. Anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking an undercoat of a glossy dark blue and then a light overspray with matte black might get some of that effect. Or maybe just paint it black and be done with it!

#2

I’d use the high heat black and then let it sit out in the sun and weather for a few years. Can’t beat natural weathering.

-Brian

#3

Blacks often fade to blue, or grey, depending on the paint formula. You might start with black, then a very fine overspray of grey.

#4

I’ll 2nd what Bob said…Shiney new black…

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/bart_salmons/_forumfiles/117shopped02.jpg)

Grimey weathered grey…

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/bart_salmons/_forumfiles/117weathered02.jpg)

There is a Rustoleum primer that is a very deep gray as well…

#5

If I was to mix my own, instead of being a fan of spray bombs, Id start with black, and add a TEENY amount of both navy blue and white. Just to fade it a bit.

#6

Hmm–a black undercoat then the a light gray? I’d want some blue in that gray, i think. I always have mixed results with rattle cans–sometimes it’s really great, sometimes it’s a disaster

Time to start spraying some scrap wood

#7

Mike,
Color can drive a man crazy! I remember deciding on colors for my victorian home making me one step closer to insanity.
There are multiple blacks in the scale, green black,blue black, bronze black ect…How about a Sherwin Williams color wheel. They will give them out for free if you purchase a lot of paint as I did or you can purchase one for about $10 …well worth it as the scales of color make much more sense when you can fan them out. Of course lighting,shadows,UV fade are all factored in as well. ON final thoughts you may want to look at the very dark green scale as well.
I’m not sure how anal you want to get but judging from your past posts I’m thinking you want to nail it correctly.
just my 2 cents
Dave

#8

The colour of the primer coat is important, but the characteristics of the topcoat vary with the colour choice of the underspray with interesting results. Simply spraying over a light or dark underspray does not always work logically. I had a case whereby I needed a maroon topcoat with a touch of red in it. By mistake I sprayed over a black underspray and achieved the exact colour match required. The topcoat was actually a lighter colour with a heightened red tint to it. when spraying directly over a gray underspray, the colour was a very dark maroon colour with no hint of red. Logically a lighter underspray would give a lighter topcoat colour. However, paint tinting is a black art.

#9
Tim Brien said:
The colour of the primer coat is important, but the characteristics of the topcoat vary with the colour choice of the underspray with interesting results. Simply spraying over a light or dark underspray does not always work logically. I had a case whereby I needed a maroon topcoat with a touch of red in it. By mistake I sprayed over a black underspray and achieved the exact colour match required. The topcoat was actually a lighter colour with a heightened red tint to it. when spraying directly over a gray underspray, the colour was a very dark maroon colour with no hint of red. Logically a lighter underspray would give a lighter topcoat colour. However, paint tinting is a black art.
Just like Tim said "Color can drive a man crazy"....;)
#10

My brother is a children’s book illustrator for a living (kevin o’malley). He’s had more than 3 dozen books published. He can see all sorts of colors that I can’t see–it’s remarkable.

I’ll do some experimenting

#11

You have to be carefully with color photos as they do shift over time because of various chemical reactions to light, air and humidity. That photo looked like it was shifting towards magenta when it was scanned.
Photoshop has color correction algorithms you might want to try taking advantage of them. They are under the image menu for auto adjusting levels. Be careful though, sometimes that option can be just as bad.
Also remember that you aren’t really just looking at a single color when you look at a large black object of any kind. You are looking at the reflected and refracted light both ambient, direct and indirect. Colors are affected very directly by the types of colors around them.
If you were going to paint that engine, you wouldn’t just paint it black, you would use an assortment of colors.
Your best bet is if you can get hold of the specs on the engine and find out what color they painted and how that road mixed that color. You can’t really tell that from a photo of the whole engine.

#12

The photo could also have had a blue cast when it was taken.

#13

Start with black, and weather it with washes and powders.

(http://home.comcast.net/~kcstrong/trr/pics/TRR3/tenderthreequarter1.jpg)

This tender started out with Krylon’s semi-flat black. Next, I weathered it with dry tempra paints–a mixture of black and white powder to give me a grey. That was sprayed with a matte finish to give it a dull look. Then, I washed over it with some very dilute black and brown acrylic paints to further the effect. If I were to paint one of those diesel locos, that’s the technique I’d use. I’d bet the black paint used on the prototype–beyond being just dirty–has oxidized a bit, making it look a bit greyer. I suspect that between that and the general dirt on the locomotive, it’s lost quite a bit of its new, glossy sheen, so a dull finish on the model would be quite appropriate.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/TVRR5/tvrr501.jpg)

Here’s a tender with just the acrylic wash over the semi-flat black paint. The difference here is that since I skipped the dry powder and its attendant matte overspray, I retained the somewhat glossy nature of the base paint. The tender looks dirty, but still fairly freshly painted.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/eastbroadtop/TVRR5/tvrr511.jpg)

The reflective finish is a bit more evident in this photo. Later, K

#14

Great tips everyone, especially Kevin! I found this picture of a Reading RS-3:

(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_rdg504.jpg)

It probably looked this way once, for an hour, and never again But here’s another one that looks very blue, although I think it’s reflecting a very blue sky

(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/rdg540a.jpg)

While this one’s clearly black, but I think maybe starting to oxidize

(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_rdg492.jpg)

I have tried to research what the Reading actually used, but no luck so far. It’s kind of an interesting historical question, what the “real” color is. Fender guitars come in a famous color, a kind of banana pudding creme color, that fender never actually used: they’d paint them white, then the finish would age to a yellowish/tan color. Now fender offers it as a finish called “vintage white.” Maybe I should market a paint color called “aged loco blueck.”

#15

Lots of pics here though most in b&w - http://www.northeast.railfan.net/rdg_rstr.html

#16

If you can find it “Pot Belly Black” (White Night Paint Co, I think) in the quart cans is blue/black with a very low satin sheen. I used to use it for boiler paint on my full sized traction engine (can’t find it anymore around here, though)

Or mix 3 or 4 parts Satin Black (or Brunswick Green) to 1 part Royal Blue then adjust the final tint with Grimy Black or SC Black

#17

Mike, My hometown was served by the Reading and I saw their locos around the engine terminal. The correct color for the locos was a dark ,drab green . Dark and glossy when new,kinda like pullman green. As they faded the green got lighter. If I were to paint one pretty close color would be Krylon cammo green aval. at Walmart. It would represent a loco with some faded coloring. Lettering was a dulux gold ( a deep yellow). The engines were not black or blueish,grey. Most of the pictures on this post are not a correct color rendering.The pic of #492 is the correct shade for freshly painted green . I hope that helps you get the right color. Dave

#18

Badger ModelFlex Pullman Green is a very dark green!

(http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/165-16-17-1.jpg)

Their Brunswick green (a shade darker) might work too -

(http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/165-16-17-1.jpg)

-Brian

#19

Thanks very much Dave, that’s interesting. I grew up in Lansdale, PA and the Reading went through all the time, but my memory only extends back to GP-30s in yellow and green. This site, “The Reading Modeler” (http://www.readingmodeler.com/modules.php?name=Encyclopedia&op=content&tid=22&page=1) has two pages on the RS#s and some of them do look green or greenish

(http://www.readingmodeler.com/assets/images/locos/rs3461.jpg)

I did some more research and you’re right, they were shipped to the Reading in a dark green, generically called “pullman green”. I missed it . I have a couple green sprays, both called “dark green,” one from Tamiya and one from modelmaster. Maybe I’ll give them a shot. Or go find some krylon camo green. Brian, thanks for the suggestions, I’ll see if I can find either locally

#20

I worked in the auto industry for 40 years. I spent a lot of time in specially built light booths looking at colors of paint to match a standard. It is amazing how much color can vary under different lighting conditions. To prove it for yourself just take one of your engines or cars outside in bright daylight. Then bring it inside and look at it under incandesent light (a regular light bulb). Then look at it under floresent light. I can guarantee you the color will look different in all three cases. Color is also very subjective to the eyes of the individual. As we get older the color sensors in our eyes tend to make objects look redder than they are. In the trade this condidtion is called “RED EYE”. We used to purposely adjust the paint on the red side of the master if we knew the quality control person was in their late fifties or they would keep telling us to make it redder.

The background color will affect the color of the object you are looking at. If you place your car in front of a bright red background the car’s color will look redder. Place it in front of a bright green background and it will look darker and shift toward the green.

The surface of the object reflecting light to your eyes affects the color you see. Just take one of your cars and rotate it around and look at it at different angles. The color will change. The type of surface, smooth or rough will make the color look different.

Color photos are very prone to change in color as they age and are exposed to sunlight. Pigments and dyes will fade and change shade when exposed to light. That is why museums hang their paintings in rooms with no natural light comming in through windows.

The bottom line is you should just paint the engine a color you like and don’t worry about trying to exactly match it to some standard from 50 years ago. You are shooting at a shifting target.

Big John