Large Scale Central

How it all unraveled

General Discussion
#1

… or how the non-performing EPL credits ended up at Delmora Bank GmbH.

Once upon a time there was the Schmidt Bank - who went broke and got broken up because they had too many non-performing loans with a wide variety of clients.
It just so happened that the Schmidt Bank was the EPL house bank and EPL had a “number of loans”.

During the break-up and quasi reorganization of the Schmidt Bank the Delmora Bank GmbH acquired all the problem loans and evidently among them the EPL loans.
It has been repeated a number of times that this happened without the knowledge of the EPL Patentwerk oHG owner; highly unlikely since there are specific stipulations in German law regarding these transactions. However it would be very hard to shop-around for a more acceptable lender if one’s loans are in sufficiently delinquent position to be termed “problem loans” - these are usually traded at a considerable discount as the effective recovery of outstanding amounts is rather low.

BTW other banks that chipped in on the rescue of the Schmidt Bank were Dresdner Bank, Deutsche Bank, HypoVereinsbank, Commerzbank and Bayerische Landesbank. But it was Delmora who acquired all the problem loans.
Delmora is since 2005 owned by a Goldman Sachs subsidiary and has in the meantime (April 2007) been renamed to Archon Capital Bank Deutschland.

Looking at this - without knowing all the nitty-gritty detail - it would appear that Goldman Sachs is not about to let this fish off the hook without reeling it in and having a close look at what kind of fish this really is.

Note: I’m neither a lawyer nor am I a banker, but I find this puzzle very interesting. And the more of the background I read the more intriguing “things” become.
Looking back to Dec 2006 I find it highly interesting that ALL the banks agreed to awarding the insolvency mass to Schöntag. But that is, as always, strictly my opinion.

No, there is no News out of Nürnberg as of yet. Yes, I received a reply from Dr. Schürenkrämer. :wink: :slight_smile:

#2

Mr Mueller neglected to post the source material and neglected to mention finding the link on the Yahoo LGBfamilyGroup. Altavista will do a good enough job with this. Here is the link:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SchmidtBank

#3
Jack Barton said:
Mr Mueller neglected to post the source material and neglected to mention finding the link on the Yahoo LGBfamilyGroup. Altavista will do a good enough job with this. Here is the link:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SchmidtBank


Jack,

Actually I went right to the respective sources - remember I’m the chap who wrote to Goldman Sachs and to Delmora; would you believe that with Goldman Sachs you can’t send an email unless you sign up/register so I signed up on their CH site - then I went to the Wiki site and kept on reading and kept on reading and kept on reading.

I’m very sorry but listing every source and every link that I followed in the last 30 hours, would have meant starting yet another folder with all the links just for this project. Not to bloom likely, not too blooming likely. BTW contrary to what some others do, I didn’t copy/paste. It’s more fun to use my own words!

Yes, I saw the link on the LGB Family Forum and yes, that was interesting reading. But everything else I discovered as I went along was even more interesting. :smiley: :lol:

Any News from your reliable sources? No? Waiting for the “publicist”, are we?
BTW the southern part of Germany has the day off tomorrow (Labour Day) i.e. no News for Wednesday. :frowning:
But there are a few papers in other parts that publish, we shall see, we shall see.

Oh, on the Schmidt Bank connection, that has been a known quantity in public knowledge since approx. Sept 2006.

A guy I know, named Schmidt, received a customized coffee mug the one Christmas, on it was Santa and the reindeer touching down, the caption read : “Rudolph, I told you the Schmidt house, not the sh** house”
No fun landing in the outhouse!

Of course one could draw up a strip on the connection of the LGB Santa Cycle to the Schmidt bank and what happens when the loans go sour (or should that be sauer?) - nah, but a cut and paste collage would be a possibility!

#4

HJ wrote:
Any News from your reliable sources?

Well HJ,

I see you have found a good reliable source!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LGBFamily/message/277

Tha Yahoo LGBfamilyGroup Site :wink:

#5

funny, never would I call a closely-controlled house organ a reliable source.
Ever.

In this particular one, the mis-information and mis-translations that have come from some so involved makes it far more suspect than others.

#6
Ken Fillar said:
HJ wrote: Any News from your reliable sources?

Well HJ,

I see you have found a good reliable source!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LGBFamily/message/277

Tha Yahoo LGBfamilyGroup Site :wink:


Keeny

Welcome back!

Yes, of course I read on the “LGB Family Forum”, of course I read that post, of course I then spent about 30 hours (off and on, between calls to Germany and other interesting places) following all the links but even prior to that I signed up at Goldman Sachs Switzerland and then switched to the German site to let them know what I believe would be a good course for the Goldman Sachs/Delmora negotiating team. I also let the Delmora guys know in a separate email!

You know, unlike some other people, I’m perfectly able to voice my own opinion directly to those who are involved. I don’t need shills and stooges to do my handy work and coach people along.
As a matter of fact I have yet to tell people what to tell the Deutsche Bank or any one else who negotiates with any of the bidders in the EPL Patentwerk oHG insolvency. Nor do I use words like “gangster” when referring to tough negotiations.
There’s a perfect ABBA song for some of you guys … something about a marionette! Is that the rallying song at the “unconventional convention”?

Someone asked in an email about my motivation, very simple: Good product, good scale, good value and ethical business behaviour.

PS It will be interesting to see how much longer the LGB Family site will be open for reading without registration :wink: :slight_smile: :smiley: can’t have all kinds of people read all kinds of stuff, can we now?!? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

PPS Someone on LGB Family mentioned that it would probably take 2500 words to explain the EPL insolvency. Yes, I know there are people who have trouble with succinct answers, but to condens it to the essence:

Non-performing loans and less than transparent business practices."

Less than ten words! … run it by the “wordy one” over on LGB Family! You guys can twist and spin it as long as you like, it ain’t gonna change!

HEY Kenny: on a completely different note! Thirty eight full years ago I touched down on this continent! Isn’t it amazing what 38 years and diligent dedication to a language can achieve?
It’s either that or a certain knack; :wink: all the people who know me personally, or at least rather well, put it down to that certain knack!
Now there are others who believe that I’m a “rude and condescending so and so” aka “R&C S 'n S” (I paraphrase); everyone is entitled to their opinion and perspective. Yes, I get email. :wink: :slight_smile: :wink:

#7

HEY Kenny: on a completely different note! Thirty eight full years ago I touched down on this continent!

YIKES
The Mother ship is long over due!

#8
Ken Fillar said:
HEY Kenny: on a completely different note! Thirty eight full years ago I touched down on this continent!

YIKES
The Mother ship is long over due!


They decided to go to Ork instead. Something about avoiding the Redbox Wars.

Remember Birks blue boxes, HJ? Our older daughter adored them; chewed on them during her teething stage whenever she could get her hands on one and we weren’t close enough to grab it. She frequently had a blue mouth that horrified unsuspecting passersby; still, no lasting harm appears to have resulted.

#9
Chris Vernell said:
Ken Fillar said:
HEY Kenny: on a completely different note! Thirty eight full years ago I touched down on this continent!

YIKES
The Mother ship is long over due!


They decided to go to Ork instead. Something about avoiding the Redbox Wars.

Remember Birks blue boxes, HJ? Our older daughter adored them; chewed on them during her teething stage whenever she could get her hands on one and we weren’t close enough to grab it. She frequently had a blue mouth that horrified unsuspecting passersby; still, no lasting harm appears to have resulted.


Chris, :wink: :slight_smile:

Soooooooooo who’s been chewing on the RedBoxes? Who’s got wine red lips from doing that?? Chances are they’ll be OK, it will wash off. Who are those guys trying to scare with their wine red RB lips?

Quite another matter with the gnashing of teeth, they get to their next dentist appointment and probably get a reprimand. Or the dentist rubs his hands (more work, more work) :smiley: :lol: :wink: :lol:

BTW I store my spare guitar strings in one of those jewelry boxes. :wink: :slight_smile:

#10

Well, well, well … wouldn’t you know it … guess what:

The former owner of the Schmidt Bank, Karl Gerhard Schmidt, has been in court since Oct 2006. The charges against him: fraud and breach of trust.

Amongst other charges: authorizing/providing a loan of 31 million Euro, the securities for which he knew to be insufficient. Or at least that’s what the state prosecutor says. :wink: :slight_smile: Innocent until proven guilty, as always!!!
Amazingly the proceedings are still in the discovery phase and it appears the judge is not impressed by the snail’s pace!

Would that have been an advantage having the Schmidt Bank as your house bank and Herr Schmidt in your corner?

Not surprising that the Richter family was upset at having to deal with a new banker. Who wouldn’t love having an “understanding” banker? :wink: :slight_smile:

Oh yes, the reference item in the Nürnberger Zeitung is this one: http://www.nz-online.de/artikel.asp?art=640810&kat=6
Let’s see what Babelfish coughs up!

#11
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Well, well, well ...... wouldn't you know it ...... guess what:

The former owner of the Schmidt Bank, Karl Gerhard Schmidt, has been in court since Oct 2006. The charges against him: fraud and breach of trust.

Amongst other charges: authorizing/providing a loan of 31 million Euro, the securities for which he knew to be insufficient. Or at least that’s what the state prosecutor says. :wink: :slight_smile: Innocent until proven guilty, as always!!!
Amazingly the proceedings are still in the discovery phase and it appears the judge is not impressed by the snail’s pace!

Would that have been an advantage having the Schmidt Bank as your house bank and Herr Schmidt in your corner?

Not surprising that the Richter family was upset at having to deal with a new banker. Who wouldn’t love having an “understanding” banker? :wink: :slight_smile:

Oh yes, the reference item in the Nürnberger Zeitung is this one: http://www.nz-online.de/artikel.asp?art=640810&kat=6
Let’s see what Babelfish coughs up!


Having been a banker in the USA in an early career, both in a National bank and national S & L charter… I had to deal with examiners (le grand inquisitor in the form of Vic’s fairy tale) and take a forced 2 week vacation (at the bank’s expense) to make sure I wasn’t hiding something… ( re the fraud comments above) … in my time I reposessed, said no and foreclosed on businesses that didn’t keep up, manage well or just plain didn’t have a clue about what business people do to keep their businesses alive, and in some caqses the business just ran out…(al la buggy whips)… I do not have any simpathy for the Richters…change is good… and good for the company in the long run because it survives…

Mark

mark

#12

I wonder why someone would insist that the link to the Yahoo group is mentioned, i am member there and what i found is a dead horse.

Regards Pius

#13
PJ said:
I wonder why someone would insist that the link to the Yahoo group is mentioned, i am member there and what i found is a dead horse.

Regards Pius


Sali Pius,

It’s like so many things to do with LGB: probably considered proprietary information. :wink: :slight_smile: Some of the “LGB Ventilators” have a hard time distinguishing between copy/paste actions and reading a post, taking it from there to follow the thread that leads all over the Internet and then refer to what one found.
Perhaps they went to the “LGB School of Advanced Research”; that’s the one who provides the input on the different prototypes. We all know how accurate the results are. Latest examples: Genesis and the Amfleet cars.

Now on that “dead horse”; someone mentioned the lack of flies in Western Canada not long ago. I wasn’t sure where they would have gone, but a dead horse would be a logical destination! :wink: :lol: :lol:

#14
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
PJ said:
I wonder why someone would insist that the link to the Yahoo group is mentioned, i am member there and what i found is a dead horse.

Regards Pius


Sali Pius,

It’s like so many things to do with LGB: probably considered proprietary information. :wink: :slight_smile: Some of the “LGB Ventilators” have a hard time distinguishing between copy/paste actions and reading a post, taking it from there to follow the thread that leads all over the Internet and then refer to what one found.
Perhaps they went to the “LGB School of Advanced Research”; that’s the one who provides the input on the different prototypes. We all know how accurate the results are. Latest examples: Genesis and the Amfleet cars.

Now on that “dead horse”; someone mentioned the lack of flies in Western Canada not long ago. I wasn’t sure where they would have gone, but a dead horse would be a logical destination! :wink: :lol: :lol:


Hi HJ

what are the LGB Ventilators, can you fill me in. so far i just visited the GBF (Garten Bahn Forum) i am new to any American forum, so i do not know your special names. By the way, the LGB family group, who is the owner? reading the top of the homepage i get the feeling that LGB of USA is the owner, is that right? How ever, i have just a hard time with that name, the word family does not fit for my taste. my gut feeling says that the whole LGB is kind in a divorce, and as we all know divorces are dirty. the fact that someone moved assets to the USA is not a niece move, i guess the rest of the family (us) was badly hurt by that one.
however, a divorce has good points too, it allows to start new, maybe do things better in the future.

#15
PJ said:
Hi HJ

what are the LGB Ventilators, can you fill me in. so far i just visited the GBF (Garten Bahn Forum) i am new to any American forum, so i do not know your special names. By the way, the LGB family group, who is the owner? reading the top of the homepage i get the feeling that LGB of USA is the owner, is that right? How ever, i have just a hard time with that name, the word family does not fit for my taste. my gut feeling says that the whole LGB is kind in a divorce, and as we all know divorces are dirty. the fact that someone moved assets to the USA is not a niece move, i guess the rest of the family (us) was badly hurt by that one.
however, a divorce has good points too, it allows to start new, maybe do things better in the future.


Hi Pius,

The “LGB Ventilators” are the “LGB fans” when you leave the translating job to Google.

“The Kollektor” (Jack Barton) had Google or Babelfish do the translation of the appeal to pester Deutsche Bank via email that he posted on the Gartenbahn Forum. Considering that he has an “in house” proof reader - his wife is Swabian - it would have been a good idea to have her quickly read it … alas … LGB fans are now “LGB Ventilators”.
OTOH :lol: :lol: it is the unintentional humour of those translations which at times is spot on the mark.

I have no idea who started that Yahoo Group, I never intended to register. But if you’re registered, go to post #1, that should give you an indication, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that David Buffington is the Group owner. Not any more than him being the President of “G45” necessarily means that he’s the owner of “G45”. In “days of yore” the “Group Owner” was highlighted, but there have been lots of changes at Yahoo!

And it’s only an experimental Group.

#16
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
PJ said:
Hi HJ

what are the LGB Ventilators, can you fill me in. so far i just visited the GBF (Garten Bahn Forum) i am new to any American forum, so i do not know your special names. By the way, the LGB family group, who is the owner? reading the top of the homepage i get the feeling that LGB of USA is the owner, is that right? How ever, i have just a hard time with that name, the word family does not fit for my taste. my gut feeling says that the whole LGB is kind in a divorce, and as we all know divorces are dirty. the fact that someone moved assets to the USA is not a niece move, i guess the rest of the family (us) was badly hurt by that one.
however, a divorce has good points too, it allows to start new, maybe do things better in the future.


Hi Pius,

The “LGB Ventilators” are the “LGB fans” when you leave the translating job to Google.

“The Kollektor” (Jack Barton) had Google or Babelfish do the translation of the appeal to pester Deutsche Bank via email that he posted on the Gartenbahn Forum. Considering that he has an “in house” proof reader - his wife is Swabian - it would have been a good idea to have her quickly read it … alas … LGB fans are now “LGB Ventilators”.
OTOH :lol: :lol: it is the unintentional humour of those translations which at times is spot on the mark.

I have no idea who started that Yahoo Group, I never intended to register. But if you’re registered, go to post #1, that should give you an indication, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that David Buffington is the Group owner. Not any more than him being the President of “G45” necessarily means that he’s the owner of “G45”. In “days of yore” the “Group Owner” was highlighted, but there have been lots of changes at Yahoo!

And it’s only an experimental Group.


even if it is experimental, why do postings go lost?
the owner of this Yahoo group is listed with David Buffington from PA. Interesting to see that the LGB logo is on top of the page. going to the profile of the owner i find this e-mail adress,([email protected]) i guess the whole thing is just a joke, someone feels the need to polish up his appearance by using someone else’s name.
here the rest of the profile which was last updated 9-17-2002.

Basics

Yahoo! ID:
dbuffington
Real Name:
David Buffington
Nickname:

Location:
Hummelstown, PA
Age:
46
Marital Status:
Married
Sex:
Male
Occupation:
Writer

ADVERTISEMENT
More About Me

Hobbies:
Astronomy, stereo photography, motorcycling, fishing, pets (dogs and cats), garden railroading … and two teenage daughters!

#17

Pius,

David Buffington is also the President of “G45”, which in turn is the owner of “LGBoA”. He has, as far as I know, also been instrumental in getting the email writing campaign - one targeted Deutsche Bank and its CEO; the other was supposedly aimed at Delmora/Goldman Sachs - on the way.

Well you know how it is, anybody can write emails, I did too. The content of mine was, most likely, substantially different from the “Pleas for Mercy” which were suggested by some. :wink: :slight_smile:

Buffington’s main function prior to being appointed President of “G45” was: longtime publicist for EPL Patentwerk and LGBoA.
I would presume that much of the English language advertising and promotion material came across his desk. He has also functioned as the “in house” liaison to EPL/LGBoA on the Yahoo! “G Scale Group”, doing a fine job, just as long as one doesn’t ask specific questions or things that are in the technical realm.

BTW the YAHOO! “G Scale Group” is owned by Buffington’s ex-wife, which, as soon as I saw the moniker of the new LGB Family Group, put a smile on my face. :wink: :slight_smile:

#18

always surprising to see a publicist in that position…

#19
PJ said:
...........................................................

even if it is experimental, why do postings go lost?


Pius,

Perhaps the postings are being prevetted - that is not a new procedure with the LGB run and/or related fora. Ask any of the “wrong” questions and chances are the question won’t be posted.
Which is just as well, otherwise you’d have to deal with all the replies from the RBB and the “LGB Ventilators”.

And there is always the possibility that one of the “shills and stooges” will alert the powers to be that there is a “nasty question” in the forum. Zap, it’s gone.

As the saying goes: “Different strokes for different folks.” :wink: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

BTW to be fair, much the same routine can be observed on the Aristo forum. Tough/pointed/precise questions on a mfgs forum are always a bit of a gamble.