Large Scale Central

How do you operate your K-27?

There has been a lot of discussion about the theory and engineering behind a lot of Bachmann locomotives lately, in particular, the K-27.

I would like to hear from people who OWN a K-27, and OPERATE it, about their experiences.

For example, I have a first run K-27, and chose the RGS #455, Post Wreck variety. Having read about some first impressions from those who landed theirs before mine, I asked TOC to go through it and modify some of the areas that others had raised as concernworthy. The counterweights were therefore shimmed, the first and fourth axles locked, and the factory wiring had been more or less replaced by the time the engine arrived in my hands, including the chuff timer which had been replaced with a magnetic one. The locomotive is equipped with RCS and a Phoenix sound system.

I find that the engine is a favorite of mine to run, although there was something of a learning curve. Even with the throttle set for a long ramp up /ramp down on the acceleration/deceleration curve, one needs to “feather” the controls (much like a 1:1 steam locomotive with superheaters…) or it bolts away from the starting line like a greyhound and very quickly goes to speeds faster than I’m comfortable with; I like to run somewhere between 15 and 20 scale miles per hour. I’ve also found that if one adds a lot of cars to the train you’re trying to pull (say, between 8 and 15 cars) that the point where the locomotive wants to “bolt” happens with more power applied, and that the batteries discharge must faster, which to me means the extra load is drawing lots of current, as the batteries have a fixed ampere/hour rating, and one can run either light or with up to five or six cars on the same track without this happening. I have compensate for what I perceive as problems with the drivetrain on the locomotive by being careful how I use the throttle, and being careful to run shorter trains if I plan to be running for awhile … I will also soon have a trail car that will alleviate the problem somewhat. My layout is indoors, and relatively flat, though there is one side that has a “low area” where the basement floor is sloped for drainage… something I intend to shim up at some point.

So, for those of you who own the K-27 and run them, how does it work for you? What difficulties have you experienced, and how have you overcome them?

Again, please note, if you don’t own a K-27, or own one but don’t run it, it’s going to be hard to participate in this discussion in the way that I’m intending this thread to go … and I would prefer that anything outside the reasonably limited scope I’m asking for be corralled into the already burgeoning discussions on this engine, and its related issues.

Matthew (OV)

I do, and I did, but I don’t.

Too big, too fast, too much current, and with certain folks trying to “prove” they are right (in the face of the experience of many), a bad taste in my mouth.

Stored.

Just to get it to where it COULD be used, it has locked axles, bypassed firebox boards, cab door grab irons reworked, replaced lamps, flywheel removed, fan removed, wiring from loco to tender simplified, sound enclosure/water shield/coal retention plate glued in across the Ames Hole, functional chuff trigger installed, counterweights shimmed, eccentrics properly mounted, Ames Super Socket REMOVED, still have to get the gearing addressed and figure out something to replace the PAPER cab window awnings that literally fall apart when used in wet weather ops.
If suitable gearing can be located, this unit may emerge from dead storage.

In 56 years of Model Railroading, I have never, as in ever, seen a locomotive with as many things that could or should be addressed.

But, then, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that a certain person was involved with, either.

Matthew; I, like the TOC, have set my K down for awhile but not for quite the same reasons, I want to run other loco’s. However it does have the problems you have noted. I do look to BBT to get us a fix. He does need to do the design work and set up his machines. While I replaced the coal load with an oil tank top to cover the Ames hole, it is still the same basic engine. I have replaced the snow plow as it was hitting everthing line side and being a pain in the ____, put on the switching pilot and even the foot boards need to be trimed back, just as on the outside frame 2-8-0!

How do I operate my K-27, with RCS and Sierra Sound.

Paul

I am running a K27 I got in a trade. This continuing saga of claims and counter claims about it is BOGUS!!

Has Ames ever run it on DC with any other loco? Fer Crimeny sakes! The K is a rocket ship, slot train or whatever compared to the rest of the 1:20 stuff. That in itself PROVES this is a major gearing screwup. I use DC track power with a TE.

I have an indoor layout with some grade on one end. The Connie, 4-6-0, Shay, Climax and Heisler all climb it with ease requiring no throttle adjustment to maintain speed. The K? Jack rabbits away then struggles up the grade.

Who the hell are they trying to kid!

Only change to this K is the addition of a QSI card. That takes the first 5 + volts to start with so the K doesn’t start moving at the same voltage as the non sound versions. However when it does its not at a nice smooth start. More like Off to the races!

I too am waiting for Barry.

Andre`

Will somebody please tell that savant sufferer in tokyo?

Andre.
Just wait till “someone” replies saying it is the after market electronics that are causing the lack of smooth starts, not the loco gearing.

Come on guys, aren’t there enough K bashing threads? This one started with a legit question.

Since I started this …

I’m interested in how many people are actually using the locomotive (versus displaying it on a shelf, keeping it in a box, etc.) and whether (like me) they’ve had to make some adjustments either to the locomotive itself, or in how they actually operate the controls or control system to make it do what they want it to do (in my case, both…) and how successful those efforts have been.

There are a lot of folks here who have a lot of strong opinions about this particular piece who apparently don’t own one, or if they do own one, they don’t operate it for whatever reason. I don’t want to deny those folks the right to be heard on what they think, but in this particular argument, if they’d hold off and let JUST the folks who have and operate one answer, it will be a lot easier to sort out the information I’m looking for. What I want to determine is a.) of our readership here, how many of these things are actually in active service and b.) what may have been required to achieve that.

Anything else really fits in the other discussions, and not here, at least by the way I intended it.

Matthew (OV)

Hello Matthew.

I don’t own a K-27.
I have personally installed battery R/C in six of them.
All have identical RCS-3 PnP controllers and 14.4 volt SubC battery packs.
Five are operated regularly on dead flat, as in designed for live steam, layouts. They are smooth and pull quite reasonable loads. I have to set the RCS acceleration rate to the slowest 10 second rate. Otherwise the K-27’s have a rather sudden lurch when starting.
The owners are happy with them although some have noted they are “quite fast” and a couple would like smoother starts.
The sixth loco runs on a long track with varying gradients. Some gradients look quite severe and the loco struggles starting off with a load.
EG. two Accucraft plastic coaches are about it on 2%.
Downhill the loco can run away a bit due to the freewheeling nature of the 1:14.5 gearbox and exceed the speed at which it can negotiate a couple of curves.

PS. I might add I have also fitted battery R/C eithet into or behind pretty well all the large narrow gauge locos Accucraft have made. I have also test run each one before delivery. I achieved the expected smooth peformance at low speed and a realistic top speed with suitable battery voltages.
I have not long term tested those locos.

Hey.
I DID answer the question.

That is EXACTLY the kind of response I’m looking for. (which is to say, Thank You!)

Hopefully there will be a large number of operational locomotives represented here, and we will be able to see what they (and their users) have in common. So far, that’s ten locomotives. Hopefully we will have a larger sampling here soon!

Matthew (OV)

Curmudgeon said:
Will somebody please tell that savant sufferer in tokyo?
Excuse me, Mr Goodson, but which particular 'savant sufferer in tokyo' are you referring to?

Zubi or me?

It would be nice to know which of us you are insulting so we can arrange to include you off our Christmas card mailing list.

tac

PS - I DO have a K-27, but it’s a tin one, and has none of the problems that the plastic one seems to have.

Well, TAC, since you haven’t been to the Ames Kool-Aid Trough, and haven’t made assinine statements about something you know nothing about, cain’t be you now, can it?

While I can hardly consider myself a “regular” operator of the K-27, I have had one out on the line for testing and photography. My trains are short–5 or 6 cars, my grades rather mild–2% max. With Tony’s PNP-3 board plugged directly in, I found the control to be quite reasonable–certainly no worse than my 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 in terms of starts and stops. They are a touch jack-rabbitty, (Good lord, spellchecker liked that word!) but not objectionable, and no worse than other locos I’ve run. My 2-8-0 and Heisler are my two slow-start kings, but with the smaller drivers, that’s to be expected.

I’ve also run the K on DCC, and while operated on a bench track only, found the slow speed operation to be reasonable. I’ve not tried pulling/starting a grade with DCC, as that was outside the scope of what I was looking at.

I put 14.4 volts max in my locos, so none of them–even the ferrari wannabes–get a chance to get out of reach. I have found the K to be very fast at 22 volts, but I also believe that’s why we have these things called “throttles.” Even at 14.4 volts, I’d be surprised if I ever ran any of my locos at full throttle. If it weren’t for the fact that the electronics need 12 volts, I’d probably run them at 9 or 10 volts and be perfectly happy.

Later,

K

My K-27 has had the shims installed and the spacers added to #1 and #4 axles. No sound,all other factory electronics in place(for now).It has been run 10+ hours. I run with a Train Engineer throttle. It has been run on flat layouts with 8, 11.5,and16 ft dia curves, all brass rail. It has not displayed any trouble derailing on switches(lgb, aristo). Train length has been 5 to 15 cars. Engine exhibits jack- rabbitty starting(I like that term!!),too high a top speed,and a lack low speed control. The loco starts moving before the LED headlite and class lites turn on. I like to run my trains at a close to prototypical speeds. I plan to stay track powered so I like the flywheel as it smoothes the stops and helps the engine run smoothly over dirty track. DTF

I run mine at shows on Del Oro Pacific along with a number of other members who have them. All of ours run fine and we like them. If you were at the Ontario BTS, you probably saw them running. Mac and I double headed ours at the Fullerton show and they ran well for two days straight with no problems being seen by 30,000 people.

Just trying to figure out why nobody over here in yUK seems to have any of the issues that plague you guys over there. Just like most of us with the first or even second generation Shays didn’t have any problems either. Neither of my two Climaxi have had any problems and the Heisler and Connie are just plain boring…

I have a 1st and a 2nd gen Bachmann Shay, both with their original power truck, and both are excellent runners, regularly hauling eight-ten home-built log cars with real logs on, not the lightweight placcy things.

I know a few over here with the new Bachmann K-27, mostly the spiffy green-boiler version, and asking around none of them have either ‘dragster’ start-up or balance weight issues.

So please tell me what we are doing wrong?

So far, we have nothing to complain about like you have, and are feeling pretty much left out of the fun you guys are having with your combined mass gripings, character assassinations and long-range insults.

tac

Terry,
Do you know where the K-27’s run?
Are they normally flat live steam layouts?
Do any of the owner operators have layouts with grades?

TonyWalsham said:
Terry, Do you know where the K-27's run? Are they normally flat live steam layouts? Do any of the owner operators have layouts with grades?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. you gots me there. Over here in yUK we are too poor to afford much in the way of grades, on account that grades imply BIG long trackage, and so very few of us have such luxuries. I have to say that as I also run fast and slow live-steam on my little track I have taken great care to ensure that it is as flat as a laser level can make it.

So I guess that my points are not moot, eh?

You needs grades to show up the weakness of these otherwise fine-looking models. Ah, wait up, my BIL has a some pretty good grades on HIS track, prolly about 4-5% - and he runs my Shays/Climaxi/Heislerii when I’m away earning a crusp in the Far East.

Ten minutes later…

Just looked at some video, and nope, still don’t have any problems.

Anyhow,as TOC notes, I have nothing to add to this thread, so I’ll go and make a pot of tea and watch my train coming around the bend. That’s the really good thing about having a circular track - the trains are ALWAYS coming round the bend - in my opnion, the best view of any train…

Best wishes from up here

tac

I give up.

Matthew (OV)