Large Scale Central

'How do I get a loco built?'

General Discussion
#1

A version of this question has appeared over on another forum - very apposite, in view of a few of the models that we will be getting over here that have little or no resonance in North america. The response from Graham Langer [with thanks] is interesting, and, I’d guess, quite a lot different from the customer requests from North america, where huge, huger and hugest gets the nod, and very seldom does a smaller loco get a look in - the possibility of a Pennsy Atlantic is the smallest ‘maybe’ loco project to get the attention of the usual makers. Perhaps friend Jason would like to put his POV in this thread somewhere?

Anyhow, here is what Graham Langer had to say -

With Accucraft UK the process is slightly different. We are bombarded with requests for this or that model and will take heed of any groundswell behind a particular prototype. However, when we decide to proceed with a project it is on the basis that we will normally make a minimum run of 50 units in the first batch. We have never announced a project and then pulled it through lack of forward orders and to date most batches are entirely pre-sold before they are delivered to us - strength of continued demand will govern if (and how large and how soon) a second run will be made. We last took a ‘punt’ on the Quarry Hunslets in 7/8ths" scale, a completely untried scale and gauge combination for ‘commercial’ production and would have been happy to carry un-ordered stock for up to a year if need be. As it was we had to increase the initial run and then produce a second batch!

We take care to keep our finger on the pulse of the UK preservation movement to try to ‘ride the wave’ when a locomotive is restored to traffic, is built new or celebrates a significant anniversary. This policy helps to ensure sufficient demand and ‘newsworthiness’ when our models are released. The next four years will see releases of commemorative models reflecting the role of railways in WW1, initially with another run of the ever popular WD Baldwin and then further 1:19 and 1:32 scale locomotives.

Many people try to persuade us to produce models of what we would classify as ‘vanity projects’, especially in 1:32 scale where there seems to be an idea that ‘bigger is better’. We don’t hold with this and although we will make some models of larger locos (such as the forthcoming A1 ‘Tornado’) our aim is keep producing small and medium sized machines that are affordable and capable of operating on layouts with smaller radius curves (much as Accucraft US has done with the delightful M6 2-6-0).

It is not all about locomotives either, we will also continue to expand the range of 1:19, 1:20.3 and 1:32 rolling stock with useful vehicles.

I hope this helps.

Graham.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#2

I considered making models in G scale to sell for about thirty seconds.
The G scale market in America is so fractured. You can’t listen to the wants as they change by the second. Even when something wanted gets released, it is picked apart for any flaws and discarded. Most customers want it for free and would still complain if they got it that way!
I applaud Accucraft for continuing and hope they release more electric versions in the future. I can understand if they don’t.
I don’t understand why they would say the 1/32 market wants them bigger. I think they are describing the whole G scale market over here and realizing how much they complain. When they look at a 1/20 scale model, they figure it’s better because it’s bigger.

#3

Joe, I think one of the biggest gripes in the USA, is the poorly designed drive systems. When a model that is expected to run well outdoors doesnt, then folks are upset. And I dont blame them with the cost that these models fetch. I remember how folks complained how expensive the LGB moguls were when they hit the market the first several years. But, it has prove to be one of the most durable engines to run indoors or out. This goes for most of all of LGB’s locomotives. SO you do get what you pay for! LGB did thier beta testing prior to production, where it seems others seem to let the buyer do this on the first production run. I also applaud Accucraft, LGB/Marklin, Bachmann and all the others that have stuck it out thru the economic issues here in the states and the rest of the world. I also applaud the hobby shops that have stayed with us, so many were lost in the last several years. Mike

#4

Yeah, I bet you’re right.
It’s easy to be gunshy if you get burned with a troubled engine.
Part of the G scale hobby seems to be spending time, money and talent just keeping things running. I got so used to it, I expect it.
I think some “importers” just put out whatever they can get produced. I wonder if sometimes the stuff coming out, is what they decided to make over there!

#5

Joe Paonessa said:

Part of the G scale hobby seems to be spending time, money and talent just keeping things running.

Kind of like a real railroad?

#6

Mike Toney said:

Joe, I think one of the biggest gripes in the USA, is the poorly designed drive systems. When a model that is expected to run well outdoors doesnt, then folks are upset. And I dont blame them with the cost that these models fetch. I remember how folks complained how expensive the LGB moguls were when they hit the market the first several years. But, it has prove to be one of the most durable engines to run indoors or out. This goes for most of all of LGB’s locomotives. SO you do get what you pay for! LGB did thier beta testing prior to production, where it seems others seem to let the buyer do this on the first production run. I also applaud Accucraft, LGB/Marklin, Bachmann and all the others that have stuck it out thru the economic issues here in the states and the rest of the world. I also applaud the hobby shops that have stayed with us, so many were lost in the last several years. Mike

Mike,

I have no practial experience with the loco market but you stated that you raise your glass to those companies that persist in these rough times. I often complain that I have to travel 30-45 minutes to hit a descent hobby shop. I will drive the distance and pay the price just to help support them. I am not anti internet. it makes things much more available but I just love going into Sunset Junction and looking at whats on the shelves. We cant expect them to keep the door open if we dont buy stuff.

#7

There IS a difference in the public market - Bachmann, LGB [when they were REALLY LGB] made literally tens of thiousands of models of the same kind. Joe Canelos over on another forum lists the many thousands of mass-produced models made by Bachmann of what it basically the same loco, upgraded over the years. LGB made over a hundred THOUSAND of their iconic little Stainz 0-4-0 loco - still a workhorse on many tracks all over the world - in fact, one fan here in UK has around forty of them himself. Aristocraft and USA Trains also made/makes locos by the hundred, maybe even thousands, Hartland slightly less.

As Graham Langer reminds us, AccuCraft makes a maximum of around 200-300 models in batches of fifty, and each and every one is made by hand. Building live-steam models is NOT a mass production business, as anybody who has built one from a kit would tell you. Even the electric versions of the steamers are made in exactly the same way - by hand-assembly, and there are even fewer of them. According to the old LGB Dépeche magazine, it took just twelve minutes to assemble a Stainz locomotive from a bunch of boxes of bits. I could not even begin to guess how long it took from start to finish to build my live-steam Beyer-Garratt, but we ARE talking about days, not minutes.

Let’s be real about all this - there are prolly more folks walking aroung your local shoppong mall than there are large-scale modellers in many countries, let alone states of the Union.

tac
Accucraft, Aristocraft, Aster, Bachmann, LGB, Maerklin and USA Trains fan.

#8

Hmmm, quoting Mr Sarberenyi of AccuCraft US, with appropriate acknowledgement - he has this to say -

I certainly echo what Graham posted. However, Cliff and I are both quite envious on the success Accucraft UK, Accucraft Australia (Argyle Loco), and MBV Schug (Germany) have enjoyed with their recent releases – most have all “sold out” very quickly! Meanwhile, our U.S. warehouse still has small stocks of Pennsy T-1 class 4-4-4-4s, UP “Big Boy” 4-8-8-4s, and a few others.

There you have it from the mouth of the horse - HUGE locos like the T-1 have very limited appeal to those whose interests lie elswhere on the continent, like me and many like me who are distinctly West-Coast oriented. And unless your name is RayMan - most of us can just about manage to host a single Big Boy made of plastic, á la MTH, maybe a diecast, but baulk seriously at hauling seven or eight thousand dollars of more on a live-steamer - if we already have one from Aster that was bought in less lean times than these.

One poster over there nigh-on begged for a USRA Mike - surely THE definitive road locomotive that could, with suitable markings, fit on any railroad, anywhere in the USA.

Do we have one?

Well, sort of.

Aster made one for a few years as a live-steamer - four thousand dollars might find you a used one, unless it’s the detailed-up version with axle feedwater pump and other goodies to make it look busier than the rather bland standard version.

AristoCraft made one - good luck with that when the spares run out, as they some day will.

As Mr S pointed out, making ANY new loco these days depends on the level of interest of prospective customers, few of whom have a reailstic appreciation of what is actually involved in the process, hence this thread and the one ‘over there’ brought to these two sites in an effort to edumacate us all.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#9

I am a long time Accucraft customer, and all things considered, I’m extremely grateful for the quality models they produce. Are their models perfect - no, but they produce a very satisfactory reproduction of the real deal. My first Accucraft loco was the D&RGW C-16 and the gear box was a mess. I worked with Cliff, sent it back and receive one that is still running great.

I’m a detail nut and their engines provide a great foundation for super detailing. I’ve been work on C-21 #361 now for over two years, just about have it all upgraded. No other manufacturer produces models of this caliber, and I’m glad they are continuing to succeed and remain grateful for the the research and effort they put into what they produce.