Large Scale Central

Hooking the EVO to LGB Mogul

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

I received the EVO from Tony last week. Now Im ready to start hooking it up to the Mogul. I have two options: 1. I can use the circuite board in the LGB but Tony said I would need to use an 18 volt battery. 2. avoid the circuite board and rewire and then i can use the 14 volt battery. I can do either options but would rather go the easiest route. Here is what Im looking at. The first picture is the drive from the mogul. What wire goes where?

Next is the circuite from the cab area. What wires are for the smoke. I want to get rid of the smoke unit?

This is the tender area. Everything is going to be stored in here. Im using the Li-ion batteries.

This is what im working with. I plan on using my controler from the live steam forney. That is a Planet controler. I assume I need the receiver with the EVO.

I have an idea on how to wire but before I start taking wires out ect… I just want to get an idea on what would be the best way. I would like to use the 14 volt battery but if using the circuite board is easier then can go that ruote.

#2

G’day Shawn.

I am not going to be much use to you really.
I can offer that I believe it is the brown wire you remove from the motor block. That isolates the track on one side and is all you need to do. The other side is permanently connected to the track, but that doesn’t matter.
To isolate the smoke unit gently pull on the wires and see which ones are connected to the pcb in the firebox. Simply pull those plugs off the pcb pins.
If you are going with the 14.4 batteries remove the green and white wires from the pcb and wire them to a 2 x way cable connector going to the tender. Then connect the two wires to MM on the ESC.
Remove one set of track pick up wires from the little pcb in the tender. Do not remove the other truck pick up wires from the pcb. Rather, cut those other tender pick up wires a few inches towards the truck and reconnect them to the fused battery supply. If the front light does not come on when the battery is connected reverse the polarity. The rear light will not work.
Plug the supplied servo lead into terminal # 3 (Elevator) on the RX. The orange signal wire goes towards the front of the RX.

#3

Thanks Tony. The tender does not have a light on it. That makes it a little easier.

#4

The stock lights are very likely regulated to 5 volts or thereabouts, so if you’re going to use the stock lights, you’ll probably want to use the stock electronics–at least for that. Hook the battery leads to the track input on the PC board (shouldn’t be difficult to trace with a continuity meter) and you’ll have lights and smoke whenever the the power’s turned on. Personally, I’d forget the smoke, as the LGB smoke units are wimpy at best, and all but invisible outside anyway. That, and they just eat up extra power. Alternatively, you can replace the incandescent bulbs with LEDs, and just wire them (with a 1K ohm resister in series) straight to the battery power and remove all vestiges of the LGB circuitry. That’s the power-efficient way of doing things, and the LEDs will last longer.

Open up the top of the motor block and wire the motor direct via the motor leads, not the pins. That way the motor is independent of any stock on-board circuitry and you can use the 14volt batteries. I’d go the extra step to remove the pins and track pick-ups, too, but it’s not necessary.

With this arrangement, you should have 4 wires running between the loco and tender - 2 for the motor, and 2 for the lights. Everything else will be contained in the tender.

Later,

K

#5

Shawn,
in the top photograph, the brown wire is the track contact for the right rail (viewed from the rear). White wire is combined motor/left rail pickup to the onboard circuit board. Green wire is the 'return wire to the right motor terminal from the on/off switch locoated on the firebox.

      This is an older three pin motor block and combined with the cheeseheaded screws would be a late 1980's version.  Lights and smoke are still 5 volts regulated by the circuit board in the firebox.  The smoke wires are the tyhin black and white wires going forward under the onboard cast weight.  My advice is dump the onboard electrics and fit lights the same voltage as your battery.  The motor will run fine on 14 volts and give a respectable speed.

      Tender wirintg (most likely three wire umbilical chord to the tender) but could be six if the tender has a rear light.  Wires at the tender circuit board are for track pickups from tender wheels plus tender light (if fitted).
#6

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Bomba_atomowa.gif)

#7

Ha ha not yet Rooster. I hope this is not a stupid ? (shut up Rooster) I traced all the wires and starting to understand what does what. Kevin you said to “Open up the top of the motor block and wire the motor direct via the motor leads, not the pins. That way the motor is independent of any stock on-board circuitry and you can use the 14volt batteries”. Im assuming that if were to just take the brown wire (goes to track pickups) off and keep the two motor wires on the circuite board with the lights, would that prevent me from using the 14volt battery? As of now I unhooked the brown wire and the smoke unit wires. What if I took the current wire that hookes to the tender and use that to hook into the battery. Basically I would have the two motor leads going into the circuite board as well as the lights. Then there is the 3 way switch. From their the wire hookes into the tender. Basicaly its the same setup except the track power wire is unplugged (brown wire) Can I do that? Then take the pickup wires off the tender circuite board and add the battery wires to that. (of course throw the charge switch ect. into the mix". Kevin you also said “Hook the battery leads to the track input on the PC board (shouldn’t be difficult to trace with a continuity meter)” Im not sure what you mean. The two wires for the front light are hooked into two pins on the circuite board. From their they go to the motor leads and that 3 way switch. When it hooks to the tender their are three wires. Circuite with just the lights hooked into it and the wire that goes to tender

(http://i49.tinypic.com/2em259k.jpg)

Other side

(http://i49.tinypic.com/2585umq.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/2585umq.jpg)

#8

Shawn.

You MUST isolate the track pick ups from the track.
Pulling the brown wire off the pin on the motor block does that effectively on one side.
Then you are faced with two choices.

  1. Do you want to leave it simple and connect the ESC output? If so you will need to use at least 18 volt batteries to get a reasonable top speed. You will have a delay starting the loco whilst the loco electrics take up the first 5-6 volts. That way you leave the stock 3 wire loco - tender connector plug in place.
  2. Do you want to use just 14.4 volts and have instant response when operating from stopped? If so leave the LGB pcb in place but remove the Green/Brown/White wires from it and connect them to the ESC output in the tender. Then connect the battery supply to the ESC and what were the old track pick up points in the tender. This will require a total of four wires between the loco and the tender. The stock 3 way cable and two more for the motor.

If you can make up your mind which way you want to go I will give you more detailed instructions.

#9

Thanks Tony that helped. I want to go with 14.4 volt battery. I guess I need to remove those track pickup strips in the motor housing? Then have the two wires from the motor to the tender. If I keep the lights hooked to the circuite board I would use the current wire that goes into the tender even though its three wires?

#10

OK.

  1. There is no need to do anything at all to the motor block. Not even remove the Brown wire. What you MUST do is remove all three wires from the LGB pcb. See last pic above. Then connect the Green and White wires to an extra two way connector cable between the loco and the tender. Inside the tender connect those extra two wires to MM on the ESC. You cannot use the existing three way loco - tender cable for thee motor drive.

  2. Locate the track pick up wires in the tender and remove the rear truck wires from the little pcb. That isolates the rear truck pick up. See Pic # 3 above of first lot.
    Do not remove the front truck wires from the tender pcb. Rather, cut them a couple of inches back from the tender pcb and reconnect the stubs to the fused battery wires. That will provide battery power for the front light. (And smoke if you want it). If the front light doesn’t come on when switching loco on reverse the battery connection.
    That is ALL you need to do apart from installing the batteries, ESC and ON-OFF switch and fuse.

#11

Look at the three wires going to the board - green, white, and brown. Brown and white are your power in, so if you hook the battery leads to those wires as they go the PC board, you’ll get 14 volts to the electronics that control the lights and smoke, which should then be regulated down to around 5 volts or so output to the bulbs themselves. (The component attached to the big honkin’ piece of metal is the regulator.) Feed the EVO also from the battery, and wire the motor output of the EVO directly either to the pins on the motor block that connect to the motor, or better yet, directly to the motor.

Later,

K

#12

If it is done the way I suggest the ONLY wiring mod in the loco is to remove the Green, Brown and White wires from the LGB pcb and connect the Green and White ones to the MM terminals on the EVO output via an extra two way cable.
There is no need to enter the motor block period, let alone wire anything to the motor as long as the push on terminals are a stiff fit. Constantly removing them and putting them back on does loosen them. If they are loose gently squeeze them together a bit.

#13

Tony, without mods to the motor block, you still maintain a direct path from the rail to the electronics, do you not? (i.e,. the “white wire pin” connects to the rail, the motor lead, and then the EVO?) Call me a “belt-and-suspenders” guy, but I don’t like having any kind of connection between rails and on-board electronics. It’s not but a few screws to get into the motor block and completely isolate things from the rails, and at this point, the locomotive’s already virtually completely disassembled. Removing the cover from the block seems hardly an extra effort for the added insurance of knowing anything that may go “zap” on the rails isn’t going to effect the on-board electronics.

Not intending to argue with you, but given that I’ve managed to zap electronics simply by walking across the carpet in socks then reaching down to pick up the locomotive, I tend to err on the “none-shall-pass” side of electron flow. :wink:

Later,

K

#14

Hi Kevin.
I understand your concern as yes the White wire is still connected to the track. However, as the Brown wire is not connected to anything other than the track there cannot be a circuit to anything on board. That is only true of course with battery power. If track power was being used then this particular chassis requires some elaborate modifications to separate the white wire common connection to the track and the motor. Just like had to be done with LGB locos to enable the use of DCC.
The biggest problem I have found with LGB Moguls that have had the motor block pulled apart, is the wheels getting out of quarter. That is easy to do accidentally and can often go unnoticed by newbies. Also I have seen examples of the motors being put in the wrong way around. That is, the opposite from the key. They have been forced into place and the locos run backwards.
I always recommend newcomers to battery R/C that they leave the motor blocks alone.

To avoid static “shock” don’t wear rubber soled shoes on nylon carpet. :wink: Either that or wear a static strap. I know of an experienced installer who had that problem with IC’s until he twigged and now uses a strap.

#15
Quote:
However, as the Brown wire is not connected to anything other than the track there cannot be a circuit to anything on board.
There's still a path for electrons to flow, and a static discharge touching the wheels of the loco will follow that path to the EVO. If you've got a sound system connected to the EVO's motor outputs, you're putting that at risk as well. No thanks. Sure, you've got to be careful to keep the wheels aligned when pulling the motor out of the mogul drive. I've misaligned them on occasion myself. For someone of Shawn's demonstrated skills, noticing and correcting the problem is not a concern. The risk of the loco binding and (worst case scenario) stripping a $10 gear is much less than the risk of seeing $300 worth of electronics go up in smoke because somehow an electrical impulse touched the wrong rail at the wrong time.

Personally, I think learning how to get into and out of a motor block successfully is a basic skill every garden railroader should have anyway–even before learning to install aftermarket control products. Ya gotta open 'em up to lube 'em. For anyone who’s stripped a loco to the point Shawn has, the motor block won’t be the slightest challenge.

Later,

K

#16

Thanks guys Im learning alot. I did remove the cover to the motor block and it seems like a simpe system inside especially when compared to some other engines. Im pretty good at catching a loco binding. I have had it happened with others locos and was able to fix it.
Hopefully in the next day or so I plan on doing more work. Any other info would be great.

#17

Kevin has one way of doing it, I have another. That doesn’t mean Kevin is wrong. His method will work equally as well.
Bottom line is if you want to use 14.4 volts you must have an extra two wires between the loco and the tender. Three wires is not enough.

#18

Tony, I had presumed new wires between the loco and tender regardless, so using the existing 3-wire plug in this case didn’t even enter my thought process. A friend of mine just turned me onto a 6-pin connector from All Electronics that I think I’m going to use to replace some of my existing tender connections (currently those hard-to-reach, tucked-up-underneath Bachmann plugs): http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/CON-640/6-CONDUCTOR-LOCKING-CONNECTOR-W/LEADS/1.html. They also make 5-, 4-, 3-, and 2-pin versions. (Most of us are familiar with the 2-pin versions if we’ve worked on Aristo or USA locos). I wish they made an 8-pin connector in the same form, but they do offer 8- 9- and 10-pin connectors in slightly different forms for those locos where you need to run lots of wires. Six is usually good for me - two for battery power to the lights, two for motor, and two for chuff contacts from the loco’s drivers.

Later,

K

#19

I understand what Im doing for the most part but one more question. If I have two wires going from the motor to the tender. ( the white/ green and brown wire are disconnected from the circuite). Then the lights are hooked up to the Circuit and from the circuit there are 3 wires going to the tender. Do I need to get rid of one of the three wires and if not were would one of the three hook to. I know where the two wires for the front light hook to if it was not hooked to the circuit. But since I keep them hooked how does the three wires tie into the tender and battery?

Sorry for all the questions :slight_smile:

#20

No need to get rid of the wire, you’re just not going to hook anything to it. Just hook battery + and - to the two wires that originally carried track power forward in the tender. The plug on the locomotive circuit board will take that power for the lights and smoke.

Later,

K