Large Scale Central

High speed rail in this country

I cannot speak for the other countries necessarily, but I find that in this country, we need to advance or evolve. Everyone knows that the United States was literally built on the backs of migrant workers who built the rails that transported us into a force to be reckoned with. The railroads made our country what it is. Without such transportation, who knows where we would have ended up.

The fact is: We need alternative transport for people that fear flying, hate driving great distances, too help clean up the air, too create jobs, (something we really need right now to bolster our economy) and too compete on the world stage.

HSR is not as bad as some think. The Acela, though limited in speed and distance, proves that a HSR system can be an effective alternative to flying.

Sure, flying is faster and even cheaper sometimes and yes, it is still one of the safest modes of travel compared to vehicles for instance, but flying requires allot of fuel. It pollutes the air we breath and it requires huge amounts of space/real estate for airports. Most people that travel by air are just relieved they got to where they were going. In a train, one can truly relax and enjoy sites and scenery. A really nice meal versus some frozen made up contrived dish better served to dogs.

I am fully aware that the cost of constructing such a project would be tremendous, but the return would be far greater in terms of jobs created and excelling our flailing economy. As well as creating a modern infrastructure. Something we need very badly.

Stacy, if it would actually make money, someone would be doing it. The US isn’t like other countries, so their solutions may or may not work here.

David Maynard said:

Stacy, if it would actually make money, someone would be doing it. The US isn’t like other countries, so their solutions may or may not work here.

I agree, but…and there is always a but…America is becoming more and more like “those other countries”.

Sad.

The US has the best trains. As far as freight is concerned, but passenger…We pale in comparison to the Europeans. Those countries know how to move people en mass. Amtrak does what it can and I love Amtrak, but even Amtrak’s record is not nearly as good/great as those of Germany, Austria, Finland, Norway, France, Sweden, Switzerland etc.

I believe it would make money and the secret to that is HSR needs one hell of a promotional sales
person at the helm pitching why people should opt for a ride on a fast train versus driving or flying.

jmo

Stacy Krausmann said:

The US has the best trains. As far as freight is concerned, but passenger…We pale in comparison to the Europeans. Those countries know how to move people en mass. Amtrak does what it can and I love Amtrak, but even Amtrak’s record is not nearly as good/great as those of Germany, Austria, Finland, Norway, France, Sweden, Switzerland etc.

The countries listed have state owned/run railways, public transportation has been ingrained for more than a century and there are “slight cultural differences”.

“If you build it they will come” is a movie about a baseball field where a corn field used to be, not a HSR concept.

Map figures show European average passenger train times between cities/towns.

The journey from Paris to Marseille by HSR TGV takes just 3 hours and covers a distance of 783 km (489 miles) averaging a speed of 261 kph (163 mph) One way $249 1st class. $149 2nd class.
Return trip tickets available…12 departures per day. Not all routes shown are HSR
XL map with travel times

Stacy Krausmann said:

David Maynard said:

Stacy, if it would actually make money, someone would be doing it. The US isn’t like other countries, so their solutions may or may not work here.

I agree, but…and there is always a but…America is becoming more and more like “those other countries”.

Sad.
…snip…

jmo

Stacy, I meant in terrain and population density, not other ways. America has larger distances to be covered between a lot of the major cities, and that may or may not work in favor of a high speed railroad concept. But there is also the mindset of Americans here. Most would rather drive, and in fact they kind of have too. I could take a train from Pittsburgh to Atlanta, but then I would be kinda stranded without a car. So, the train might do better if it let me take my car with me, but the Auto Train didn’t seam to catch on and be widely adopted, or I could rent a car (yuck).

Ross Mansell said:

Map figures show European average passenger train times between cities/towns.

The journey from Paris to Marseille by HSR TGV takes just 3 hours and covers a distance of 783 km (489 miles) averaging a speed of 261 kph (163 mph) One way $249 1st class. $149 2nd class.
Return trip tickets available…12 departures per day. Not all routes shown are HSR
XL map with travel times

NICE!

Especially for HJ - but he probably already knows about it.

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2014/06/02/new-high-speed-trains-to-operate-on-gotthard-route-from-december/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Railco+(rail.co)

Ross Mansell said:

Map figures show European average passenger train times between cities/towns.

The journey from Paris to Marseille by HSR TGV takes just 3 hours and covers a distance of 783 km (489 miles) averaging a speed of 261 kph (163 mph) One way $249 1st class. $149 2nd class.
Return trip tickets available…12 departures per day. Not all routes shown are HSR
XL map with travel times

Now place a map the United States and Canada over this. I bet there is a big difference. Another reason why rail travel is not effective. I personally would rather drive. Im too independent and hate relying on others.

And add in the population densities…

Stacy Krausmann said:

David Maynard said:

Stacy, if it would actually make money, someone would be doing it. The US isn’t like other countries, so their solutions may or may not work here.

I agree, but…and there is always a but…America is becoming more and more like “those other countries”.

. . . .

I believe it would make money and the secret to that is HSR needs one hell of a promotional sales
person at the helm pitching why people should opt for a ride on a fast train versus driving or flying.

jmo

The people who have access to fast, reliable trains here [i.e. Acela riders] already appreciate the lack of TSA/airline hassle and the comfort of the trains. You don’t have to sell them on the virtues. Acela is a profitable piece of Amtrak.

It exists because the PRR saw the value of fast trains and built a 4-track high speed mainline to NYC under the Hudson. Amtrak inherited the infrastructure and exploits it and the tracks north to Boston.

Nobody had to lose their farm or relocate to make it happen (not in the last 1/2 century, anyway. Who knows what dastardly tricks the PRR pulled to build their bit!)

There are good salesman selling the h*** out of the LA-SF HSR. They’ve got a lot of people interested. Unfortunately, they aren’t going to get into downtown unless they have some political muscle behind them, and the Auto and Aircraft industries, who spend $$ in DC, don’t think it is a good idea.

The government should bite the bullet and tell everyone that the gas tax is going up to (a) give people and incentive to drive less and (b) to invest in new, efficient public transport - like streetcars, interurbans, subways, and high speed trains. Europeans know that is why they pay high gas taxes, and its the only practical way to raise public funds. Tax the less-desirable mode of transport and channel the money to ways that society feels is more desirable.

There are a lot of dreams expressed here…and a lot of people dreaming, that don’t seem to realize the real costs of their dream ideas…and where the money will come from to not only pay for the original investment, but the cost of running it over the long term.

I too would enjoy rail travel here in North America…but I could never afford the cost, as a passenger, when it gets down to the long term cost of running it.

There has to be a dedicated willingness of the average NORTH AMERICAN to travel by train…do a wee bit of research in your community…the will or interest is not there…

I see and hear it daily…few take the existing passenger trains, and fewer still, would ever give up their freedom to drive. The only thing that might force the issue is fuel at $10 a gallon…but then the cost for the railroad would go up too.

Yes…we should work to preserve, what passenger trains exist, and work slowly to increasing the network. But to go for HST, instead of looking at just increasing the dependability of existing rail…and increasing its speed is a futile endevour, in North America, with its public mindset, and political state of mind.

Here in my small town (30,000 pop) they are going to rebuild a rail station (depot) that was removed 50+ years ago when the UK rail system was slashed.
Seems rail enthuisiasts requested it “because we can travel direct to Continental Europe” (They can do that now anyway from two stations (see below) …but, they have to change trains AND stations in London!
The big problem is a car park…no real space for more than about 50 cars.
The build will cost some £3 million…($5.25 million.) and include converting single track to double track.

This is an affluent area and I cannot see people giving up their cars to travel 5 to 6 miles into the city to the north or 5 to 6 miles to the town to the south. (We have 5 motorways (interstate) routes around here that can speed you on your way to all parts of the country (well…max speed being 70mph on them). To London 1 hour 50 mins

The major company using the track ( Virgin with Pendalinos), have pulled out of the idea…they run London to Scotland and vice versa (with intermediate stops of course). Business wise it would not have made sense and the platforms would not have been long enough for their trains anyway! so they will run thro at about 100mph…
The cost of travelling on the train will not be cheap .

The present train between the south town and north town (12-15 miles between) consists of three coaches/self powered (railcars).

I await the first year account of this station’s takings after the opening!

Oh and although they will install lifts for disabled passengers they have not yet worked out about connecting the footbridge that crosses the track to the station …it has about 50 steps either end and not available for wheelchair use or pushchair use.

In view of the fact that people here have coped for over 50 years without a station/depot…makes you think eh?

Many of you have expressed some legitimate concerns regarding HSR. In many instances, I can relate to what was stated. However, none of us can predict the future and most of us in here, regardless of our differences love trains. Therefore it may become necessary to remind many of you that transportation in this country must either evolve or be dismantled. That is the way it has been for centuries now. Our rail system in this country is really first rate, as far as freight is concerned, but as I stated earlier, our abilities in the areas of people moving is appalling and in need of a complete overhaul.

Acela is a litmus test. An anomaly of sorts. Even though it exist primarily to move people to and fro, from east coast locations in the NE sector, it does demonstrate that HSR can function and it can offer alternative transportation to those that cannot fly or drive long distances. Obviously, buses are out because they are far to impractical, as far as moving large amounts of people to and fro.

I happen to embrace the European way of train travel. Sure, there are minor and major differences between our two cultures and yes, there are physical differences as well. However, there is nothing this country cannot do if we really set ourselves to task. Like going to the moon, we just need motivation and a goal. A realistic goal at that.

When I visited Germany, I rode OBB’s Taurus led passenger trains. They were, in a word, magnificent. A true work of engineering and technology. I was very impressed with how easy it was to simply go from one location to the next and I don’t speak fluent German. I know enough, but I am still learning. The point is, the trains worked beautifully and I was always where I needed to be.

By comparison. I rode on the Acela from DC to NYC. I was totally impressed with the level of comfort, safety and engineering that went into this beautiful train set. Nothing we have compares to it. Even the Amtrak’s Empire Builder cannot boast as much as Acela as far as ridership. I found the Acela to be a very promising concept for HSR within the continental United States.

I know many in here are either against HSR or under the belief that it cannot be done. Many have offered very intelligent reasons as to why. Personally, I hope for our countries sake, we find the will and the where with all to overcome our difficulties so we can build a really first rate HSR system. We must have it eventually as it is quite obvious, we are running out of ways to move large amounts of people to and fro.

BTW, thanks to all for your replies.

“…From My Cold Dead Hands…”

…grinning…

Ditto Cale !!!

I love trains, but I also drive for enjoyment, and I have a convertible… that I control… not much sense in a convertible top train!

Transportation is one thing, it’s not everything a car does.

Greg

Cale Nelson said:

“…From My Cold Dead Hands…”

Your sentiments are noted, but really I am not suggesting anyone give up their vehicles. If that is what you are taking away from what I posted, I am sorry to say you are truly lost. No offense, but cars are a luxury and NOT a necessity. Greed and selfishness have all but taken over our society. That coupled with a sincere lack of self confidence to evolve into a sensible society have all but limited our abilities to push forward.

Remember, airlines ended the reign of passenger travel by rail, but what comes around, goes around!!!

Greg Elmassian said:

Ditto Cale !!!

I love trains, but I also drive for enjoyment, and I have a convertible… that I control… not much sense in a convertible top train!

Transportation is one thing, it’s not everything a car does.

Greg

Yes, cars have all but spoiled mankind to the point of absurdity. I love cars/trucks just like any other red blooded American, but lets be practical for a moment. Cars are becoming boring and useless as traffic jams have all but proven. The cost of vehicles is outrageous and “WE” stupid Americans all but ended the reign of the American Auto Industry by inviting foreign made manufactures into this country. Jobs be damned, nothing ever came close to what we manufactured from the late 20’s to the late 60’s.

From a purely scientific point of view. your point Greg is not valid. As it is quite obvious that trains can move people about to and fro far more easily today, versus any number of vehicles. Sure, one cannot take a train to the grocery store or a doctor per say, but there is the crux. How to get people to have vehicles and still ride trains for practical reasons.

Stacy

Stacy, actually the foreign car market improved American cars. They become more reliable and dependable because of the competition they suddenly had. And I need my car for my job, as so many others also do. Oh sure I could take the T into town, but I couldn’t carry all I need to do my job on the T. The T is our local light rail transit system.

For trips that I take, a train would be a real hassle. I like to be able to leave when I want, and come home when I want. I don’t see me taking a day trip to the other end of the state by train. It just wouldn’t happen. The convenience of having my own transportation and running it on my schedule just cannot be replaced.

Stacy, for someone who gets offended as easy as you have in the past, I wouldn’t be posting that someone is “truly lost” and saying that we are greedy and selfish because we consider our car a necessity. For many of us it is. Mine is so vital to the job I do that my company is starting to invest in company cars. And for someone who lives miles away from the nearest bus stop, they wouldn’t survive without a car. Just because someone doesn’t share your opinion, doesn’t mean they are “lost”, or otherwise deficient.

Ok, I will go back into my little corner now.