Hello, I am new and have a LOT of questions. First some info to help with the questions I come up with, I am looking at doing a ground level (unless lottery or huge payday for complete overhaul of back yard) with somewhere in the range of 200 to 300 ft of main line possibly available to me. I would like to stay in the GP38- SD 40 size locos,with cars to match that era, USA trains seem to , at least to me, the most available in 1:29 and good quality. I have read several places about track types and sizes, but for mainly cost reasons brass seems to be the best. Now to start some wars, between battery and track power, from inital start up costs and construction what way has the easier path to operating trains? Looking at forum posts from 3 or 4 years ago and websites that the info is from several years ago I do not think is giving me up to date information. tech has evolved so I do not want to make decisions after reading possibly out of date info. This is in no way a dig at anyones web site , all info is great, but of by the time i get rolling with track power, if I could be way ahead with battery… If I go battery , that will eliminate reverse loop/ wye wiring problems, but how about switches? would I need to still run wires to operate them ? do they make manual switches? same with some kind of trackside lighting. Do they make switches that can work with your controller for the locos? Go easy on me , at least for a day or so, I was told a long time ago the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask. I could go on but will save it for later
Welcome, I think your asking the right first questions. I will only offer the decision have made and why as I really am new to it as well. Since I started with nothing I weighed cost of track with equipment cost and the ability to travel to other peoples houses to play. I came up with aluminum track and battery power. Aluminum track is by far less expensive than brass and allows one to put down much more track for the money and when you start that counts. Since aluminum isn’t the conductor brass is that means for reliabilty battery makes sense. Now since I am traveling to other layouts I won’t need to be dependent on their chosen power source. Cost for battery/RC is more expensive but absorbed one loco at a time isn’t bad. I chose a system where I can easily use one transmitter to run many lococs. Going battery will require less maintaince at least in cleaning. So at least for me starting fresh aluminum track and RC/ battery just makes sense to me.
Others have great reasons for using brass track or stainless track with or without track power. You will find there are many right answers and you will need to do what makes sense for you.
Yes there are manual switches. Any lighting would need power run to it.
Welcome Pete !
USA makes a great product and nothing wrong with a line of GP38’s (my favorite all around manufactured loco).
Track vs battery power? Honestly if you stick with the same type of locos from the same manufacturer it will really help you out with other choices in the hobby especially when it comes to train control.
I prefer heavy brass rail myself on hefty ties for the ground contact part of my RR and I like to hard solder all my track with railjoiners in about 20’ lengths of the hard soldered rail. Why ? Well for many reasons but the most important one is because I can! There are pros and cons either way however I like to think like the 1:1 and focus on the infrastructure and smooth solid “welded rails” seem to be the way to go these days.
As for the other choices you inquired about I personally cannot help with but there are quite a few others that can.
I answered your post this way because when I started with “Large Scale Central” this would have been the perfect advice I was looking for at the time to get me up and running.
BTW Pete …I can’t believe you wrote all that on your,you’re,you are ,ewe R ,UR 1st post!
Short rant and just block me Pete
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Welcome Pete-
I’ve been at the hobby over 15 years and here’s what I learned from experience and talking to other garden railroaders:
1 - IF your layout is observable from the expected view point in your yard AND the entire layout can be seen in its entity without moving one’s head, the train area will suffer because of the lack of variety in the view. Example: When I extended our 15 x 30’ train area to curve and go down the side of the yard by 20’, creating an “L” shape to the overall track plan. Now, the layout became more interesting and guests would get up and leave the observation point, a patio, and stand watching the train progress. To be simplified, they moved their heads to see the entire layout. It became interesting.
2- Elevated off the ground is better - even a foot. Different elevations do enhance interest. Once a layout loses interest except by the one family member (you?) it becomes a potential obstacle and fades onto a yard maintenance list – because everyone has seen it by then. Flat on-the-ground track is not as interesting as track that has variances in elevation.
There will be other suggestions offered. Glad you are on this enthusiast’s site.
Wendell
Welcome aboard!
Hi Pete,
Welcome aboard our crazy ride…
I’m batty too, the last thing I want to do is ask about the depth of your pockets, but according to some there’s a point when going the DCC route ends up being less expensive. Mostly it depends on how many locos you want to operate… Here is a link to the R/C I like, it’s made in the USA
https://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
He is also the American distributor for 'Mylocosound" a sound card company.
There are other more expensive set ups too. I’m sure more links will be presented as folks find their way to this thread.
John
Welcome Pete!
I’m still a newbie myself. Started construction of my layout about a little over a year ago. I have a thread documenting it in the pictures section of this site. http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/21020/just-the-begining/view/page/1
I was in the same boat you were with all the questions and confusion.
I run Aristocraft Gp40, Aristocraft Dash9, two USA Trains SD40-2’s, and a bachman 2-4-0. The only thing I had when I started in G Scale was the Bachman 2-4-0. Since then I’ve collected the engines mentioned and about 40 freight cars. It can happen fast…just warning ya. lol.
I have brass track down and thought I was going to stay track power. I was going to buy a bridgewerks power supply for power. In the meantime I was using a cheap power pack just to run a small train while I built the layout. After a few runs I would have to clean the track. It took about 30 minutes to clean with a scotch brite pad. Eventually, I also had to clean the wheels of the locomotives…not with the scotch brite pad though. After doing that a couple times I was done. I switched to battery and have never been happier. I started out with a trailing car with a battery in it. That cut down on costs in the beginning. Right now I’m in the process of putting batteries in each engine. It’s just more handy to me and I don’t have to run the same box car behind the last engine. lol.
Also, if you go battery and you don’t have to worry about your track being stepped on, aluminum rail is a whole lot cheaper. It’s just not as sturdy. When I go to expand my layout, in the near future, I will be using aluminum. But like I said, nobody will be walking on it. Right now all my layout is brass.
Also, I use Crest Revolution to control my trains. Super easy to install in aristo engines. Not as easy in usa trains, but you can do it. I’m to chicken so I just drive up to RLD Hobbies and have Robby do it. Plus that gives me a chance to buy something else. lol.
Another thing, use the largest diameter curves that you can fit in the area you plan on using. If 20’ diameter will fit, use it. That’s some of the best advice I was given and it was true.
Wendell Hanks said:
1 - IF your layout is observable from the expected view point in your yard AND the entire layout can be seen in its entity without moving one’s head, the train area will suffer because of the lack of variety in the view. Example: When I extended our 15 x 30’ train area to curve and go down the side of the yard by 20’, creating an “L” shape to the overall track plan. Now, the layout became more interesting and guests would get up and leave the observation point, a patio, and stand watching the train progress. To be simplified, they moved their heads to see the entire layout. It became interesting.
Wendell, thanks for that. That is a great observation and one i will have to figure out how to maximize in my space which could easily suffer from this.
Yet another for a first start at Mik’s Build Challenge 2016. Stay tuned for a great adventure coming the 1st of Jan.
I built my pike 18" up off the ground on a raised bed, running Stainless track and DCC or track power for visiting locos. Allowed me to create a river canyon with trestles, and then added a 7ft tall pile of dirt for a mountain division. Here’s a pic from early in the construction phase.
As for switch control, i use Air controlled solenoids, using manual controlled panel switches, and soon (I Hope) from my hand throttle via, DCC.
There are many combos that you can put together, but the one that you have the most fun with is the best for you. Don’t build your pike to please someone else, build it for your own fun.
Exactly build it for you. The “discussion” about track versus battery power has so many variables and considerations that should be factored in, its hard to say what would be best for what you want to do. I went with track power, so I could have automatic station stops behind the tree, and in front of the tree. It makes my railroad appear larger. That would be doable with battery power, but not nearly as easy as it was with track power. Also, with track power, I can bring a new (or new to me) locomotive home and run it with no further expense or effort other then placing it on the track. But track power isn’t for everyone. I spent more money for stainless steel track to minimize the track cleaning, and just enjoy running trains. So the question of what power to use is a personal choice, and you need to consider all of the pros and cons.
Making the railroad interesting should be considered. My yard has a healthy slope in it, so my trains run on a trestle, across 2 bridges, on 2 fills and in a cut. They also play hide and seek behind a tree, and tree ring type flower bed. That is so much more interesting then running on a flat oval. To make my railroad even more interesting, my mainline is a single, bi-directional track, with a reverse loop at each end. Yes, I said I run track power. The reverse loops/mainline power is controlled by a home made, relay control system.
Keep asking questions, but do not just take the answers given as the only answer, unless the answers are unanimous.
Welcome about Pete.
I think rather than try to re-write his book, I recommend getting a copy of Kevin Strong’s book ‘Garden Railway Basics’. He covers many of the topics a new person would be asking about quite well. Kevin is also a member here and you will find his posts most informative, and he will answer questions freely.
I will only stress one subject that seems to be glossed over by many, account for thermal expansion in your planning. If not allowed for it can cause some headaches that can be hard to fix later.
Although most seem to believe that one combination or another is the most cost effective, it is my belief that regardless of combination of track, power, control system, manufacturer, etc. etc., it all will wash out about the same. Most importantly it has to be your choice, not someone else’s. I would also recommend finding a local club or possibly a local member from the forum that you can get together with and get some local support.
Happy RRing.
Bob C.
Bob, I would have to do some serious math to believe that the cost would be about the same. Yes I spent more on track plus the cost of wiring, but I also haven’t had to put batteries and RC gear in over 30 locomotives, streetcars and such. 30 is my best guess, because at last head count I had 25, and I know I have added at least 2 locomotives and 3 streetcars since then.
Edit, I just pulled up the latest rendition of my roster, mostly because I wanted to know. I have 42powered units; locomotives, streetcars, a railbus and a truck. That isn’t even counting the stuff on the future project shelf. That would be a lot of RC gear and batteries.
Hi Pete, welcome to the nut house. You don’t have to be crazy to hang out here, but it sure helps.
I use battery-R/C, a mixture of track, brass, stainless and aluminum. Because I use R/C, I tend to follow my train as it works its way around the layout. That means that I can use manual turnout levers. No wires to run.
Some folks have used solar powered LEDs to light their buildings. There are some threads here about that, just use the search engine. Again, no ( well, fewer) wires.
A lot of us are going to point to point layouts. I have a loop incorporated into my point to point, for those times when I just want to sit back and enjoy the afternoon. The p to p gives the opportunity to operate as a transportation system. I’ve found that after two trips around anybody’s layout, chasing my caboose gets boring.
Its your railroad, and the idea is to have fun.
Welcome aboard. Pete. As you can see we have a diverse group here and are more than happy to help you out.
As for me my only suggestion with the T/P vs B/P thing is to go with what you’ll be comfortable with. Since they all come RTR out of the box on T/P that’s the easiest way to get started. Get some track down, get some trains running, then later on you can decide what you think will work for you, straight DC, DCC or R/C. How you run your layout will also be a deciding factor on what system to use. Will you just let the trains run, sit back and watch, or are you like some of us that like to operate a layout like a real RR, switching cars out at various industries? You have plenty of time to think about all that.
How you build your layout depends a lot on the local weather and ground conditions. There are plenty of topics on here that discuss various methods of building a layout. Go with whatever method your comfortable with and think will work for you. One thing I have found in this hobby is layouts are always evolving and changing. As your knowledge and experience grows, so will your layout.
There are plenty of books and articles out there that discuss how to get started. And don’t be afraid of making mistakes. We’ve all made them and we’ve all learned from them. There is no “right or wrong” way to build a layout. Every one’s different and every one has their upsides and downsides. Only by trial and error will you find your happy medium.
The main thing with all this is to have fun! And we’re here to help.
Welcome to The Nut House indeed!
Hi Pete,
Welcome Aboard - don’t mind the bilge pump it runs all the time and actually keeps the bilge smelling sweeter.
Welcome, Pete, and hello!!
As long as you ask…do yourself two favors:
-
Go battery. You’ll never regret the simplicity of it. And, onboard power has a secondary effect which is seldom mentioned: when you are tempted to buy too many engines (that’s NOT you, of course, no no, and not ME of course…but, just in case…) adding the cost of batteries to your initial purchase price is a good deterrent to over-collecting locomotives!
I’m sure everyone would love to see a picture of the space you are working with. We all love pictures around here!
Welcome Pete. You will get lots of great advice and lots of different opinions, non being wrong. Since you are just starting out, convert your engines to battery power. Its easier and your wallet doesn’t take a hit all at once. As you get more engines it will become harder to convert them later. The most cost effective way to get multiple engines hooked up to battery is using a battery car. The disadvantage is you have to use the same boxcar etc… behind the engine. I started out with track power and eventually switched to battery. I found it is more difficult doing it now because I have a lot more engines now then when I started. As for track I like brass because the way it weathers. Aluminum is cheaper but it can bend easier when stepped on.
I would definitely get Kevin’s book and also ask lots of questions on here, check out members videos, web sites and build logs.
One of the most important things is to get track down ASAP. I see too many people spend too much time planning and never get trains running. Im a firm believer in getting track down and then expand from their.
Shawn Viggiano said:
One of the most important things is to get track down ASAP. I see too many people spend too much time planning and never get trains running. Im a firm believer in getting track down and then expand from their.
Yeah…don’t be like me and wait as long as I did:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/23057/no-more-mister-nice-guy
Track or battery power needs to be decided before buying track.
Determining your budget and what you want to do with your layout is important and will also drive decisions.
Think about things like:
- who will run the trains
- how many trains eventually
- how many trains at the same time
- do I want at least a loop to let them go by themselves
Spend the time to think about your priorities… just buying stuff now may "paint you into a corner’…
I’ve got several pages on the things you need to consider on my web site, http://www.elmassian.com below is a screenshot showing those items:
greg