Large Scale Central

Help me understand the electronics, sound

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

My Bachman American is 98% complete, just some weathering and lettering and a few broken parts to repair. I just removed a defective circuit board in the boiler and the smoke generator, then re-wired the lights with some incandescent bulbs. So that part seems to be fine.

Now I would like to add a simple chuff sound to this unit. One axle already has pickups and spaced contacts with a two wire cable to the tender. The sound boards I have seen are $100 or more, unless I am looking at the wrong thing. For $100, I’ll make the “chug chug” sounds myself. I likely will stay with track power, for now but may change the lights over to battery power so that would be a possible power source.

Suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

#2

David, you can prob find someone with an Annie sound card laying around that they’d send you for shipping…or for a little less than $100 you could do the Small Scale Sound Card (of which I plan to use for my kids trains). here is the link, they have some realllly nice sounds:

http://www.smallscalerailway.com/
The Huckleberry 4-6-0 is my fav!

Tom Ruby (Torby) has had a good experience with his!

#3

Like my Small Scale board a lot. $90 with the 1w amplifier. I use the Huckleberry sound too. The board doesn’t have many features, but it’s always making sounds appropriate to what I’m doing, whether sitting idle, moving slow, switching, on the main line… The sounds have lots of character.

Didn’t much like the Dallee board that’s about $100. Just changed it to a Phoenix P9.

I haven’t tried the QSI board. I’ve heard it’s nice for around $150.

Otherwise, there’s a $5 “train sounds” board you can get from some electronic stores like Jameco that doesn’t do to bad making chuffs, bells and whistles.

You might be able to talk that barefooted guy out of his Dallee board.

#4

Thanks for the suggestions. The Small Scale seems to be a nice unit. I too like the Huckleberry. I suppose I am just surprised at the cost for one of these boards considering the very low cost of the components I can see pictured. Maybe a used, less that “rivet counter” quality would be good for me for starters.

I’ve had a very little bit of experience with amateur radio electronics and have priced out some of this stuff. But I’m not one to begrudge anyone a profit.

#5

I expect the main cost of making sound boards is collecting the sounds.

#6

Chooo-chooo-cho-chooo, chugga-chugga chugga. That will be $2.75 please.

http://www.dieselairhorns.com/sounds.html

#7

Oh! You wouldn’t believe. They actually visit different trains and do complex recording sessions.

#8

I agree, soundboards are oddly priced. The Small scale card is quite good but limited. The QSI board does ten times more(it’s also a DCC decoder) for $135. QSI sound is excellent but to get the most out of it you need either DCC or the “quantum engineer” they sell, which triggers the sounds on track power. Phoenix sound quality is excellent and you can trigger a whole range of sounds, but wiring them up can be a pain.

Getting sounds, as Tom says, is the hard part. If you want it to sound good, and not irritating, you need to get more than one sound–you need to get the sounds under different conditions, and you need to seamlessly blend them.

for example with Small scale, the chuff gets faster as the loco speeds up, but it doesn’t sound much different. It’s the same “chuff” sped up. With QSI, the chuff sounds changes as the engine gets under load–faster and slower, but also it changes from loud and labored to quiet and gliding, and it gets a different timbre. It makes the sound much more realistic. To do that, QSI had to record locos under a wide range of conditions and speeds, or else find a way to fake it, which would take a lot of work.

It’s odd to me that a Phoenix card costs so much more than a QSI. The Phoenix sounds are excellent but so are QSI’s and the QSI is also a motor control board that syncs sound to motor load.

MRC makes a sound card for around 50 bucks I think. Have never seen or heard one though

#9

Has anyone ever been able to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track?

Likewise, how do you trigger them with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

If so how is it done?

#10
TonyWalsham said:
Has anyone ever been able to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track?

Likewise, how do you trigger them with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

If so how is it done?


Good Question Tony!

I’ve got 4 loco’s that would love a QSI, and could purchase them for the price of 2 Phoenix boards…

#11

Great question Tony and I don’t know the answer. QSI’s documentation is less than clear.

This link

http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/q1a_steam_v411_man.pdf

describes what you can do under analog DC; it’s possible to blow the whistle and ring the bell and more

#12

Mike.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing in those QSI information pages that explains how to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track.
Neither does it explain how to do the same with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

BTW.
It is not a good idea to power the QSI sound systems with pwm output voltage controllers of any sort for the same reasons it is not a good idea to that with any other DCC decoders.

#13
C. Nelson said:
TonyWalsham said:
Has anyone ever been able to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track?

Likewise, how do you trigger them with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

If so how is it done?


Good Question Tony!

I’ve got 4 loco’s that would love a QSI, and could purchase them for the price of 2 Phoenix boards…


What are you waiting for Mr. Nelson??? jump into QSI/G-wire I did and have been very satisfied every since doing so over a year ago. I have 3 engines equipped that way. Two Aristo Mallets, and a Dash 9 I do have another dash 9 with Phoenix sound, and OEM Airwire receiver, and I am considering selling it off as I like the QSI\G-wire better. The Only thing that would make me wait is to see what comes about with this new “Procab” being advertised in Garden Railways. Guess they only have a prototype one on it and nothing to sell yet but has been advertised in two issues of it already. Kind of like that “Revolutionary thingy” too but I’m NOT interested in that at all. Seems to me it hasn’t even come out yet and it is to me anyway already been outdone so to speak with newer more advanced technology already!!! I have two of theyre old systems and use when I run track power or other engines not equipped with QSI/gwire. The Regal

#14
Tom Ruby said:
Like my Small Scale board a lot. $90 with the 1w amplifier. I use the Huckleberry sound too. The board doesn't have many features, but it's always making sounds appropriate to what I'm doing, whether sitting idle, moving slow, switching, on the main line... The sounds have lots of character.
And what more do most of us actually want?

I’ve just emailed them with a wants list. To do most of my locos with Phoenix sound would cost me almost $8k. I’m looking to replace my now-defunct Sierra sound systems without making me into a pauper. These days, just filling up can do that pretty easily…

tac
www.ovgrs.org

#15
TonyWalsham said:
Mike.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing in those QSI information pages that explains how to trigger the the QSI sounds with regular reed switches and magnets in the track.
Neither does it explain how to do the same with any battery powered radio other than AirWire + G wire.

BTW.
It is not a good idea to power the QSI sound systems with pwm output voltage controllers of any sort for the same reasons it is not a good idea to that with any other DCC decoders.


I agree–there is nothing very useful there–as I said, they are less than transparent in the instructions, Greg Elmassian may know.

#16

Mike,
I do know what the answers are.
What I was trying to do was get potential users of QSI to investigate whether or not the QSI system will actually do what they want it to do.

#17

If there is any question still, there is no electrical inputs to trigger sounds on a QSI, the only way is DCC commands, or by sequences of polarity reversals of the track power on DC… (This is how the Quantum Engineer does it on DC).

I’ve suggested to Tony Parisi (QSI solutions) to put trigger inputs on them, because he would be able to get some more of the market, but really, who is his market? Very few systems run with magnets anymore… yes I know people want them, but the majority of the market is elsewhere… otherwise the Sierra would still be a viable product, and there would be more competition… everything out there is old with the exception of the updated phoenix boards.

Regards, Greg

#18

Greg. I beg to differ.
I think the majority of regular DC layouts that run sound equipped locos still use, and want, track magnets to trigger the sound.

Sure it is old fashioned, but that is what most have and they don’t really want to change.

The main problem with marketting Sierra was that dealers had to stock multiple systems to cover even the basics. Whereas with Phoenix, they only need to stock one piece of hardware and program it to suit the customer. Even though it is more expensive than Sierra was.

#19

I did run with track magnets for a while but it got annoying VERY quickly. Same thing every time. Del Tapparo makes a randomizer that varies the results when you pass over the magnet, sometimes the bell, sometimes the horn, sometimes nothing, but that got old quickly too.

I’m sure there are a lot of people still using them, and they are probably great for an open house or automated operation.

I agree–if QSI added input triggers they would grab a bigger share of the market. I would still say that Pheonix has prettier sounds but that in terms of operational variety and realism, QSI is worlds better

#20
Greg Elmassian said:
Very few systems run with magnets anymore... yes I know people want them, but the majority of the market is elsewhere...

Regards, Greg


Greg, I would also beg to differ with you. I don’t have any statistics, but I would guess that many, if not most, railroads around here use track magnets.

I would agree that repetitive whistle events, especially on a small layout, can get old in a hurry. That is why I have included a randomized whistle event in my new “Enhanced RailBoss R/C”. You can program it to sound the whistle/horn 0%,25%,50%,75%, or 100% of the time it crosses a track magnet. The same can be done with station stops. It makes for very interesting and unpredictable operation. You can also trigger sounds from the transmitter at any time you like.